License transfers

[Robert Randolph]

If a person were to purchase a used receptor, are all the plugin licenses transfered therein as well? Are all developers obligated to offer license transfers for their receptor-ready plugins?

It seems the purpose of hardware is defeated if you're not allowed to sell it as a fully functioning unit.

[fake]

It seems the purpose of hardware is defeated if you're not allowed to sell it as a fully functioning unit.

Move to the UK. Here you can do what you like with it, and under the UK law you dont have to abide by any license agreements either.

fake

[topaz]

nice theory, (do you mean just for receptor ?)

coz it sure aint that way for other software.

Move to the UK. Here you can do what you like with it, and under the UK law you dont have to abide by any license agreements either.

fake

[fake]

nice theory, (do you mean just for receptor ?)

coz it sure aint that way for other software.

Move to the UK. Here you can do what you like with it, and under the UK law you dont have to abide by any license agreements either.

fake

No theory and not just for receptor It is in fact a major part of the UK law when purchasing goods, including software and nothing can change that fact. You are forming a contract of sale with the seller of the goods and no one else. The contract ends when you hand the money over. No other conditions can be entered into after the sale. To make it legal in the UK you would have to agree to and sign a license agreement before handing over any payment as this would then form part of "the contract of sale."

For some strange reason, manufacturers of software seem to think they are exempt from such a law, maybe because the laws in the US are different.
Another reason why record companies cant stop the sale of secondhand cd's.
It would be interesting to know if anyone has been sued for license infringments.

fake

[seamoss]

I am moving to the U.K., damn it.

[Robert Randolph]

nice theory, (do you mean just for receptor ?)

coz it sure aint that way for other software.

Move to the UK. Here you can do what you like with it, and under the UK law you dont have to abide by any license agreements either.

fake

No theory and not just for receptor It is in fact a major part of the UK law when purchasing goods, including software and nothing can change that fact. You are forming a contract of sale with the seller of the goods and no one else. The contract ends when you hand the money over. No other conditions can be entered into after the sale. To make it legal in the UK you would have to agree to and sign a license agreement before handing over any payment as this would then form part of "the contract of sale."

For some strange reason, manufacturers of software seem to think they are exempt from such a law, maybe because the laws in the US are different.
Another reason why record companies cant stop the sale of secondhand cd's.
It would be interesting to know if anyone has been sued for license infringments.

fake

Doesnt most software, and website say something along the lines of "by downloading" or "by installing" you are in agreement of the license agreement.

Also most have you click a checkbox saying you agree to the license agreement.

by what you say above, this is perfectly legal then. The customer is agreeing to the sale. Is there a law making it illegal for the seller to not sell their item unless a an agreement is agreed to? I cant find anything that says that.

[fake]

Hi.

"Doesnt most software, and website say something along the lines of "by downloading" or "by installing" you are in agreement of the license agreement.

Also most have you click a checkbox saying you agree to the license agreement."

Yes , quite right. like I said, providing it is done before the point of sale then it becomes legal and part of any contract. In fact online sales protect the maker better because the can do that.
It only becomes a problem when you buy from a retail store/shop, PC World etc, as you do not/have not agreed to any conditions beforehand. Your contract is with them.

Had an interesting thought, do people agree to a software license when buying a PC with ready installed software? It's usually ready to go "out of the box"

fake

[dburgan]

Gotta remember in the software world you are not buying goods. You are buying a license to use the software, not the software itself. To me this is the natural way to sell digital things given the inherent quality of software, which is not a tangible good.

The analogy to material goods would make a lot more sense if it weren't for the fact that software is infinitely copyable with no degradation in quality. The real question is whether as a matter of law the UK says that license transfer is fair use or not. If it is fair use, then any contractual statement to the contrary is illegal and so not enforceable. Anybody a lawyer in the UK?

[fake]

dburgan wrote:

"Anybody a lawyer in the UK?"

Not quite a lawyer but a qualified consumer advisor. Helped to research on a book by Lynn Titchiner about consumer rights in the uk, and was also trained by her. Was also traind by the Consumers Association (Which Mag), and worked as an advisor for a London Council.
Unfortunatly for the software houses, in the uk buying software is classified the same as buying goods with exactly the same statutory rights. As the law says "no extra conditions can apply to a sale AFTER the contract is completed". It's not a case of whether it is fair, it is a case of whether it is part of the conditions of sale. You must agree to any license before handing over any payment otherwise it is invalid. That is a basic point of consumer law.
The UK consumer laws have not changed much over the years and need to be brought up to date to deal with the modern digital age. They are now way behind. The only additions have been EEC rules which do not affect the statutory laws.

PC World a computer store in the UK have had to changed a notice above their software. It did read "we do not give refunds on software", it now reads "we will only give refunds on software if the law says we have to". The first version was illegal, they now accept the laws.

I could give plenty of examples, but will only say that "Microsoft" had to settle a case out of court (keeping it quiet) because of the same laws.

The main problem is that sadly most people are unaware of most laws that affect them.

PS. I dont charge much.....

fake

[dburgan]

Interesting ... for companies that sell digital stuff directly, then, all they would need to do is add a checkbox to the checkout process asking the customer to 'agree to the license terms' before the sale can be completed. Obviously a link to said license so customer can read it would be needed too.

If it's done that way, then I would assume any restrictions on license transfer would legally apply?

Also, here's a question - what about companies who are based outside the UK (e.g. within the USA) and have no employees or offices within the UK? I guess I could sue someone in the UK in US courts under US law ... which obviously would be weird ... international law confuses me ......

[spaceman]

Doesnt most software, and website say something along the lines of "by downloading" or "by installing" you are in agreement of the license agreement..

it's not legally binding.. they can put anything they want there, but if it's not according to european law so it's not binding

[headquest]

I am moving to the U.K., damn it.

You need to know that it's rather crowded here

I mean, welcome to the UK

[fake]

Hi dburgan

Spaceman is very correct, nice one

For a start, to make things legally binding in the UK you would have to agree any contract beforehand as per normal contractual arrangements. Just checking a tickbox may be legal in the US but not here as it cannot affect your statutory rights. It is a retail sale and as such you are NOT buying a license, you are buying a product. That is why the UK Sale of Goods Act applies.
The problem with manufacturers selling goods direct is they then open themselve up to being sued. ie Microsoft. The contract is with the seller after all. If I buy from a store my contract is with them, I have to sue them. I am not allowed in law to sue the maker as I have no contract with them. It then follows that if I have no contract with them then the can't have one with me.
The other question
Under the new EEC rules if you purchase a product on-line or otherwise from another country the laws of the country that you reside in apply. eg, I may buy something on line from Peru but the contract of sale is made in the UK, so the UK laws apply.
A small claim in the County Court costs little. Last time I helped on one it was about £40 and I think the claim limit was £300. Enough to cover most software!

There are also other parts to The Sale of Good Act.
Anything you purchase must meet 3 requirements. The goods must;
1. be of merchantable quality.
2. fit their description.
3. be fit for their purpose.
A failure in any one of these means you can sue.

The guy that sued Microsoft did it on 3 and claimed a refund. He purchased it direct from microsoft as an upgrade. He claimed that the product (win98) was buggy, was constantly crashing his computer and not fit for its purpose even though his computer met the recommended requirements. He even pointed out that Microsoft even knew about the bugs and had posted a report on its website. Microsoft then pointed to the license agreement and was told it did not apply!

The case was then settled out of court. The guy was richer by £K and yet all he wanted was his money back.

It is a very powerful act, and was designed to protect the consumer not the maker.

Gonna go for a few days. I now need to check out the Linux license agreements as I suspect there mabe some infringments there. Not sure whether it is legal to have people license stuff that is pre installed on a Linux PC. Must it all be open source?

Have a good weekend Fake

[Amberience]

Its a bit of a pisser that you buy software LISCENCES... but if you were to lose your CD or break it, you'd be expected to buy another.

Corporate whores.

[fake]

Its a bit of a pisser that you buy software LISCENCES... but if you were to lose your CD or break it, you'd be expected to buy another.

Corporate whores.

Just before I log off....

That is why under the copyright act you are legally allowed to make a copy of any software that you own.
(3rd party) providing you keep the original. Copy protection breaks those rules and maybe the cd license format rules as well.

fake