Native Instruments Komplete 360 subscription

[parma]

NI deserve whatever shit they get for (essentially) discontinuing Reaktor. It's undeniably a major touchstone in the development of digital computer music. Shameful.

[SLiC]

I suspect this subscription model is the last roll of the dice, I also suspect it won’t work at all as so many of us have so much of their stuff from previous 50% off sales. They have oversold and underdeveloped, not sure what will happen next but I really hope they don’t fold.

[chk071]

I suspect this subscription model is the last roll of the dice

If only I got a Euro for every of such fabulous predictions.

[Trensharo]

thats it i am selling reaktor and i am done with nate of instruments

Plugin not good. Sell now.

REAKTOR is good, but unless you're just using it as a Player, it's basically a developer tool.

Most users basically use full REAKTOR no differently to how they use REAKTOR Player, except maybe they'll use User Library content - assuming they even know that exists.

Can't sell it for much. REAKTOR 6 was recently in a $70 product bundle that everyone I know knew about, and it's practically maintenance mode, anyway.

REAKTOR is not the product to buy for synth patch building. Synth workstations like HALion/Falcon/Phase Plant/Omnisphere/Vengeance, etc. were always the superior option for that.

That's quite a narrow view. I would call it a sandbox. From basic element editing, to layered patches..it's all possible in Reaktor.

Not Narrow at all. REAKTOR is a platform for developing Synths, FX, Samplers and MIDI Processors.

The only way you can do patch building in REAKTOR is with REAKTOR Blocks, and that didn't show up until REAKTOR 6. SO, for most of its existence, you were basically relegated to using REAKTOR Core or REAKTOR Primary to build REAKTOR Ensembles. Almost no Music Producers or Composers are building things in REAKTOR Core or Primary. Sorry, but I cannot be convinced.

Blocks is new (relatively speaking), and doesn't require Full REAKTOR. It only requires REAKTOR 6 Player.

Sandbox is basically agreeing with me while trying to seem like you're talking about something novel, simply because you've used a different term. Platforms like REAKTOR are Sandboxes, yes, in the sense that it compartmentalizes those products within itself - they way Kontakt does with Kontakt Libraries. The products built upon them live and function within them. Glad you agree.

In any case, 98.6% of people who own the REAKTOR product use Full REAKTOR no different than they use REAKTOR Player. The only major difference for those people is that Full REAKTOR gives access to Ensembles in the REAKTOR User Library, which otherwise would run in Demo Mode in REAKTOR Player.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if even 10% of REAKTOR's users even used REAKTOR Blocks (Base and/or Primes).

That is a big issue that NI ran into with REAKTOR.

1. Most people used it as a "Player" Instrument to Host Ensembles, not build products.
2. Their push to get 3rd parties to invest in building [commercial NKS] products on the REAKTOR platform failed utterly.

If very few people are building products with the platform, and instead simply using it to host Komplete and User Library ensembles... then the rationale for investing significantly in development simply doesn't materialize.

REAKTOR is maintenance-mode because the product simply doesn't perform such that it merits anything investment beyond compatibility and bug fix patches.

[noiseboyuk]

REAKTOR is maintenance-mode because the product simply doesn't perform such that it merits anything investment beyond compatibility and bug fix patches.

Post snipped for space, but all spot on.

What is so frustrating is that you feel NI saw this coming a long time ago and tried a solution that would work for many users with Super 8 - just hive it off to its own plugin, and that was the first to become VST3 IIRC. Obviously that was a total failure for them as it was abandoned in about a year. I guess they realised they would have to maintain a dozen products rather than one, and just gave up.

I suppose we must think of Monark, Razor, Skanner XT etc as EOL. I reckon we'll get a few more years out of them before the OS situation becomes untenable.

Then there's the issue for NI with it all is the expansions. They've made hundreds of the bloody things, and most have Massive patches in them. Speaking of which, that's another thing that is quietly dropped from the subs - no expansions. I guess that's because of all the loops and wavs - you could simply rent once, copy all the content and done.

[gentleclockdivider]

thats it i am selling reaktor and i am done with nate of instruments

Plugin not good. Sell now.

REAKTOR is good, but unless you're just using it as a Player, it's basically a developer tool.

Most users basically use full REAKTOR no differently to how they use REAKTOR Player, except maybe they'll use User Library content - assuming they even know that exists.

Can't sell it for much. REAKTOR 6 was recently in a $70 product bundle that everyone I know knew about, and it's practically maintenance mode, anyway.

REAKTOR is not the product to buy for synth patch building. Synth workstations like HALion/Falcon/Phase Plant/Omnisphere/Vengeance, etc. were always the superior option for that.

That's quite a narrow view. I would call it a sandbox. From basic element editing, to layered patches..it's all possible in Reaktor.

Not Narrow at all. REAKTOR is a platform for developing Synths, FX, Samplers and MIDI Processors.

The only way you can do patch building in REAKTOR is with REAKTOR Blocks, and that didn't show up until REAKTOR 6. SO, for most of its existence, you were basically relegated to using REAKTOR Core or REAKTOR Primary to build REAKTOR Ensembles. Almost no Music Producers or Composers are building things in REAKTOR Core or Primary. Sorry, but I cannot be convinced.

Blocks is new (relatively speaking), and doesn't require Full REAKTOR. It only requires REAKTOR 6 Player.

Sandbox is basically agreeing with me while trying to seem like you're talking about something novel, simply because you've used a different term. Platforms like REAKTOR are Sandboxes, yes, in the sense that it compartmentalizes those products within itself - they way Kontakt does with Kontakt Libraries. The products built upon them live and function within them. Glad you agree.

In any case, 98.6% of people who own the REAKTOR product use Full REAKTOR no different than they use REAKTOR Player. The only major difference for those people is that Full REAKTOR gives access to Ensembles in the REAKTOR User Library, which otherwise would run in Demo Mode in REAKTOR Player.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if even 10% of REAKTOR's users even used REAKTOR Blocks (Base and/or Primes).

That is a big issue that NI ran into with REAKTOR.

1. Most people used it as a "Player" Instrument to Host Ensembles, not build products.
2. Their push to get 3rd parties to invest in building [commercial NKS] products on the REAKTOR platform failed utterly.

If very few people are building products with the platform, and instead simply using it to host Komplete and User Library ensembles... then the rationale for investing significantly in development simply doesn't materialize.

REAKTOR is maintenance-mode because the product simply doesn't perform such that it merits anything investment beyond compatibility and bug fix patches.

SO wrong on a multiple of levels .
Reaktor has been used by pro's for decades , some of them build some of them don't .
Patch building ala blocks has been possible since the early days ,, the advantage of blocks is premium dsp because of meticulously crafted algo's in core .
N.I. has made the wrong decision by dumbing reaktor down (blocks racks )to cather for a bigger audience instead of bringing us more specialized tools .

[exmatproton]

The only way you can do patch building in REAKTOR is with REAKTOR Blocks, and that didn't show up until REAKTOR 6. SO, for most of its existence, you were basically relegated to using REAKTOR Core or REAKTOR Primary to build REAKTOR Ensembles. Almost no Music Producers or Composers are building things in REAKTOR Core or Primary. Sorry, but I cannot be convinced.

You don't have to be convinced. I don't care. I'll just keep using Reaktor for my patch building

[Trensharo]

I can't be bothered to respond to that other stuff. Just Lol.

REAKTOR is maintenance-mode because the product simply doesn't perform such that it merits anything investment beyond compatibility and bug fix patches.

Post snipped for space, but all spot on.

What is so frustrating is that you feel NI saw this coming a long time ago and tried a solution that would work for many users with Super 8 - just hive it off to its own plugin, and that was the first to become VST3 IIRC. Obviously that was a total failure for them as it was abandoned in about a year. I guess they realised they would have to maintain a dozen products rather than one, and just gave up.

I suppose we must think of Monark, Razor, Skanner XT etc as EOL. I reckon we'll get a few more years out of them before the OS situation becomes untenable.

Then there's the issue for NI with it all is the expansions. They've made hundreds of the bloody things, and most have Massive patches in them. Speaking of which, that's another thing that is quietly dropped from the subs - no expansions. I guess that's because of all the loops and wavs - you could simply rent once, copy all the content and done.

Yes, they've boxed themselves in with Massive and FM8 by using them as stock synths in the Maschine+ firmware. Absynth could be dropped, but Massive and FM8 could not because Maschine+ likely was in development a couple of years before it was released. As a result, they had already obligated themselves to maintaining those synths before years ago.

The REAKTOR Synths are fine, as long as the core REAKTOR platform maintains compatibility with new platforms. The REAKTOR platform abstracts things, which helps to maintain those products - they only have to focus on REAKTOR itself, not fifty discrete Ensembles (barring outlier issues).

I think Windows-on-ARM may test this, but maybe the work for Apple Silicon will prove beneficial to developers porting things over on Windows.

[JamminFool]

I can't be bothered to respond to that other stuff. Just Lol.

you mean the people who disagreed with you?

[Trensharo]

I can't be bothered to respond to that other stuff. Just Lol.

you mean the people who disagreed with you?

I mean things that are nonsensical.

I respond to people who disagree all the time. Check post history

If it makes sense, I will respond even if I disagree. I am not here to change minds. Only to speak mine.

Any other questions?

[Sindikhate]

Nope, the roadmap seems to be more clear. NI is hardware, Kontakt and they intend to pump out rompler content likely because the expansion packs did well, and I’m guessing they’ll phase those out in favor of Kontakt only libraries.

Still guessing, they’ll rely on PA and Izotope to provide plugins and synths moving forward (but not likely to include older NI stuff).

NI made business mistakes I think at some point, and pairing with PA and Izotope was such an odd move. (To be honest it was mostly odd that Izotope joined).

Regarding Kontakt and considering the partner companies know more about the future than the customer, look at Spitfire, Orchestral Tools for example moving away from Kontakt and doing their own thing/player.

Kontakt if you put the effort and learn it inside and out is an amazing sampler and has also great effects. A good sampler will always be needed.

What I do not like is that they remove products as they see fit ... You cannot install Battery 3 from Native Access, Pro53.. They also removed Kontakt 5. Now they removed the Evolve mutations from being able to buy (luckily still on Native Access). One would have to create numerous hard drive clones to ensure compatibility with past plugins/projects and have a couple of old systems (pc or mac) just laying around for that purpose. Ridiculous stuff. I get it that we have reached the point that people do not need to buy much stuff anymore to make music and it is only younger people who start from scratch at this point mostly but come on... making us lose tools, or possibly in a way forcing people into subscriptions only is crazy. We kinda feel like the pensioners that the system would love to get rid of in order to set up something new.

[Sindikhate]

It is things like that that annoy me the most!

https://www.reddit.com/r/NativeInstrume ... on_failed/

[audiojunkie]

Nope, the roadmap seems to be more clear. NI is hardware, Kontakt and they intend to pump out rompler content likely because the expansion packs did well, and I’m guessing they’ll phase those out in favor of Kontakt only libraries.

Still guessing, they’ll rely on PA and Izotope to provide plugins and synths moving forward (but not likely to include older NI stuff).

NI made business mistakes I think at some point, and pairing with PA and Izotope was such an odd move. (To be honest it was mostly odd that Izotope joined).

Regarding Kontakt and considering the partner companies know more about the future than the customer, look at Spitfire, Orchestral Tools for example moving away from Kontakt and doing their own thing/player.

Kontakt if you put the effort and learn it inside and out is an amazing sampler and has also great effects. A good sampler will always be needed.

What I do not like is that they remove products as they see fit ... You cannot install Battery 3 from Native Access, Pro53.. They also removed Kontakt 5. Now they removed the Evolve mutations from being able to buy (luckily still on Native Access). One would have to create numerous hard drive clones to ensure compatibility with past plugins/projects and have a couple of old systems (pc or mac) just laying around for that purpose. Ridiculous stuff. I get it that we have reached the point that people do not need to buy much stuff anymore to make music and it is only younger people who start from scratch at this point mostly but come on... making us lose tools, or possibly in a way forcing people into subscriptions only is crazy. We kinda feel like the pensioners that the system would love to get rid of in order to set up something new.

I've thought a lot about that. I think the only "safe" way is to always be sure to buy content from third-party developers, licensed to work in Kontakt player. I may be wrong about this, but it seems to me that it would be contractually harder for N.I. to disallow content that was contractually agreed to be supported in the Kontakt Player. And also, the Kontakt player is continually kept up to date for the exact same reasons--the third party contracts. While I haven't yet purchased anything "Kontakt" related, I'm currently eyeing the Impact Soundworks Shreddage 3.5 Telos library with great interest. It works with Kontakt Player, so in theory, it should be a purchase that N.I. is less likely to be able to discontinue on a whim like so many other plugins and packages.

[Ah_Dziz]

I saw this come through my email the other day. Most of what NI has done in the past 5-7 years is pretty ridiculous to me as an end user. Kontakt is still the best sample platform around and I'm more likely to buy a kontakt library than any other. I'd happily buy commercially released reaktor stuff, but that platform seems to have failed. If they aren't including expansions I really don't know what they think anyone would be interested in renting.

On the plus side they have a very nice "DAW" in Maschine and a top of the line sampler in Kontakt as well as a top of the line DJ platform with traktor. This should be plenty to keep a company going, but they're far from being an innovative company these days.