EnergyXT, Helm: Cannot Use them Together under Puppy Linux

[ozboomer]

I'm trying to use Helm (v0.6.0-868) and energyXT (v2.7) using ALSA (no JACK or QjackQtl) under Slacko Puppy Linux (a Slackware distribution build)... but I'm having some troubles getting them both to work together...

Both applications install Ok and work when only one at a time is run... but how can I get them to work together?

EnergyXT seems to like VSTs (does it work with LVs?), so Helm won't load in any fashion inside energyXT... and when the main executable of Helm is run (from /usr/bin/helm, I think?), no sound appears at all; the order of load doesn't affect anything either: helm then ext OR ext then helm.

BTW, the helm FAQ says the helm plugin is located at /usr/lib/lvs... but after installation, that directory doesn't exist. However, the directory /usr/lib/lv2 *does* exist.

Any suggestions on where I should be looking to try and get the two programs to work together?

Thanks.


John

[dermichl]

hi john, i'm afraid you're on your own on this. the dev is not supportive in any way and he dropped Linux again (i'm pretty sure he bit off more than he could chew)...

[djvision]

Both applications install Ok and work when only one at a time is run... but how can I get them to work together?

It's not possible without JACK. Also, the current Linux build does not support LV2 plugins. Even if you had JACK installed you might not be able to route HELM through eXT in a meaningful way because the Linux build does not support JACK MIDI. However, the Windows version of eXT works great under WINE and you may be able to accomplish what you want that way (though I've never used a LV2 plugin in WINE).

hi john, i'm afraid you're on your own on this. the dev is not supportive in any way and he dropped Linux again (i'm pretty sure he bit off more than he could chew)...

It's not that he bit off more than he can chew. eXT is one of the more solid DAWs for Linux. The problem is the nightmare of Linux audio, not eXT's developer. Even audio-centric distributions like Ubuntu Studio have their packages break regularly. KX Studio is constantly battling old and deprecated packages.

[ozboomer]

Right, this is what i expected (the JACK dependency). I still can't get my head around JACK and its 'control' and 'remapping' applications... and so much of Linux sound is just a can of worms that I can't fathom out after years of trying different distributions and styles of things.. Like a lot of linux, it's 'just too hard' and is why I still stick (most reluctantly) with Windows for 'production' work (of all sorts, not just music).

The aim is to have a portable DAW of some sort, so that I can work on my music when I'm not on my 'normal' PC. energyXT works easily as a portable application under Windows, so that's Ok... and with Puppy Linux, I can take a small, bootable USB drive with linux and the linux version of energyXT installed and I can work away on any PC (without leaving any tracks around).

The 'inbuilt' synth in energyXT is Ok.. but I wanted some further sound options for use with linux energyXT. 'tunefish4' installs and works Ok... and Helm works 'standalone' (but, as we now have confirmed, it only works with JACK, etc) but not with energyXT (I dont' want to 'bloat' the Puppy Linux installation with WINE, etc)... A VST instrument called 'Aspect' works Ok with energyXT... but most of these VST instruments use wavetables and non-subtractive synthesis to do their thing... and I'm very much a (senior(!)) old-school synth user... so all the phase distortion and other style synths are not very helpful to me.

Anyway, maybe some folk have other suggestions for Linux hosted, non-JACK (that is plain ALSA -style) VST instruments I could use with energyXT...?

Thanks for the postings.


John

[chk071]

The aim is to have a portable DAW of some sort, so that I can work on my music when I'm not on my 'normal' PC. energyXT works easily as a portable application under Windows, so that's Ok... and with Puppy Linux, I can take a small, bootable USB drive with linux and the linux version of energyXT installed and I can work away on any PC (without leaving any tracks around).

I don't remember it's name now, but wasn't there a portable audio distro developed exactly for that purpose? Studio 1337 or something? Not sure if it still exists though, how well it is maintained, and if it offers everything you need. I also remember it cost a small amount of money, not much though, like 20 dollars or so.

Edit: Ok, found it seconds after writing this: http://www.getstudio1337.com/ Costs more than i thought though, 74.99 including USB stick.

[pekbro]

As cool as Puppy Linux is, its probably not the best thing for working with audio
due to the way it saves. Its designed to be run entirely in ram. Editing audio is
generally the opposite.

-Cheers

I've been using it for years, its handy for fixing broken operating systems
since it can mount an NTFS file system (or others). If you cant start
windows you can often fix problems independently of it with Puppy.

[fortklang]

Hi ozboomer;

at the moment there is no linux vst in the original download of helm.
You can download the package from :

https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/ ... /+packages

And unwrap the needed helm.so with ark or something similar.

[djvision]

The aim is to have a portable DAW of some sort, so that I can work on my music when I'm not on my 'normal' PC.

I know that feeling. One thing I can suggest is maybe using a combination of Linux Multimedia Studio (LMMS) and Audacity. LMMS is surprisingly robust and stable, but you can't record audio and it does not support MIDI export (yet, but soon). I'm sure you are familiar with Audacity. The reason why I suggest these two programs is because they have PortableApps equivalents. I used to work on tracks this way on a Windows computer at work when it was slow. I had PortableApps installed on a USB stick with LMMS + Audacity and kept all my session files on the same USB drive. When I got home to Linux I could just keep working off that USB drive, then do the same thing the next day. PortableApps also runs well under WINE. I'm starting to sound like an advertisement for them so I'll shut up now since they are not paying me, haha.

[ozboomer]

Hi again, all...

It was a good clue to grab that Ubuntu distribution of Helm and extract the .so VST; I'd tried doing something similar with the LV2 gadget that's part of the normal linux download but energyXT obviously doesn't work with those - plugins have to be VSTs.

Actually, the link to a Ubuntu repository will be generally handy, Fanx! People on various forums so often simply quote 'apt-get' commands or talk about Synaptic, which is no use to me with Puppy... but I can always a binary package built for Ubuntu and extract some bits and things will often work - '.deb' distributions are frequently directly installable on most recent Puppies.

Thanks, too, for the suggestion about LMMS+Audacity. I use Audacity a fair bit and I've tried LMMS a bit (both of these in both installed and portable versions under both Linux and Windows)... but I find LMMS a bit tricky. I am but a simple (civil) engineer and so many of these DAWs/sequencers are too complicated for me to get my head around(!) -- Sonar was too much from Cakewalk Pro (Audio)... and don't talk to me about Ardour or sumfin'(!)... This is why I went with energyXT in the last half-a-dozen years.. but I'm sidetrakcing (again)....

Now, generally, I use both a portable Windows installation of energyXT and an 'installed' version of energyXT in Puppy Linux... and after a couple of minutes of re-configuring for local audio hardware, I can be up and working with energyXT, no problems. Most of the gear I use when in 'non-home' locations is basically Windows PCs, using Intel processors with on-board sound 'cards'. They are all genrally between 4 and 10+ years old... and everything always works Ok.

However, I am trying to use the linux version of energyXT on my latest PC at home... and I just can't get rid of the distortion/broken-up sound that normally can be fixed with playing with the buffer size/latency settings in energyXT 'Setup'.

It's strange, 'coz I can use a Windows version quite happily with no sound problems at all (obviously everything is different 'coz it's using Windows 8.1 and ASIO4ALL)... but with Puppy Linux, she's just a no show.

I won't go into all the guff and troubleshooting nonsense here... but just to see if anyone has any clues on whether it's just one of those 'luck of the draw' things. This silly PC has a UEFI thing instead of a normal BIOS, so maybe that makes a mess of Puppy... but maybe only for timing-critical applications; I can play normal music tracks, MP3s etc on this PC when using Puppy... but when the funny timing issues are important, like in energyXT, everything goes all nutzo..

Anyway, would appreciate any further thoughts... Thanks.

...and again, MANY thanks for helping me get Helm working Ok with energyXT in Puppy


John

[NystagmusE]

I think the issue is that ALSA doesn't allow non-exclusive use of the sound.
You could try installing PulseAudio, then configure it for low latency (edit daemon.conf and/or default.pa within /etc/pulse/ )
PulseAudio allows for simultaneous use of various audio programs. Arch Linux's website has good documentation of PulseAudio and how to edit the files.

Which version of Puppy Linux are you using? If it's based upon Ubuntu you could probably install PulseAudio with no problems. I remember trying Puppy Studio and that's what led me to Ubuntu Studio, which I use now.