KVR Audio

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Tue May 21, 2013 7:27 pm

My main (only, actually) DAW is Logic. For the past couple of months I've been trying everything recommended by tech support to resolve frequent crashing with Waldorf synths, namely Largo, Lector, and PPG Wave 3v. I've done everything from re-installing Logic, trashing preferences (basically every *.Logic.* file in the preferences directory), trashing the audio unit cache, updating OS X, checking for new Logic updates, updating the latest version of Steinberg's USB eLicenser app, changing sample rates, sound cards, any other things that I've done that I've lost the will to remember. I still get excessive crashes with these plugins. The SN-based synths, like Waldorf Attack, PPG Wave 2v, and D-Pole work perfectly. My other USB eLicenser-based plugins work perfectly (Arturia), so I'm not sure that's the issue.

Just for the hell of it I installed my Akai version of Ableton Live Lite 8 and tried the AU version in it and it works flawlessly. No crashing whatsoever. Does it even make sense that Logic would have an issue with an AU plugin even though it's Apple's dedicated plugin format and Live is able to use it without crashing?

Would any of you continue to try and troubleshoot these plugins or would you just say f*** it and get rid of them? I recently had the logic board on my Macbook Pro switched out, but that was before I started using these plugins, so I have no idea what the culprit is. I use a lot of other plugins, none of which crash Logic, but for some reason only the eLicenser-based Waldorf plugins are crashing.

Not really sure what the point of this post is, really. I guess I'm mainly just looking for an opinion to see if I should hang on to these plugs in hope that a future hardware upgrade will remedy the situation or not. I'm conflicted because I actually LIKE these plugins when they're working. Thanks.

-Sam

fisherKing · Post by **fisherKing** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:14 pm

logic (which i live&die by) is a finicky beast; i've had countless issues with third-party plugins (and gave up cakewalk's z3ta &2 because it NEVER worked right in logic).

still...EVERYTHING else i use works fine (and i have a lot of plugins). some of them were troubleshot by the developers, to work with logic (with my humble assistance).

sounds like it's a specific issue; if it were me, i'd give up those plugins, move on. some developers never get these things fixed...

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:32 pm

fisherKing wrote:logic (which i live&die by) is a finicky beast; i've had countless issues with third-party plugins (and gave up cakewalk's z3ta &2 because it NEVER worked right in logic).

still...EVERYTHING else i use works fine (and i have a lot of plugins). some of them were troubleshot by the developers, to work with logic (with my humble assistance).

sounds like it's a specific issue; if it were me, i'd give up those plugins, move on. some developers never get these things fixed...

Thanks for the response. Yeah sometimes it's just not worth it. I can live without largo and ppgwave as there are a lot of other wavetable options, but Lector was the only vocoder that I've tried that I actually like. The modulation options are great on it. I never used it on vocals, mainly percussion tracks. Would you know of any awesome sound-mangling vocoder a for logic? I had the orange vocoder but it was pretty limited in functionality and kind of boring on anything besides vocals. Thanks!

-sam

fisherKing · Post by **fisherKing** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:47 pm

vocoder? sorry, i don't know what's good. i tried orange vocoder years ago, pretty good...but you already know it's limitations. electraX has one built-in; maybe check that out...

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:48 pm

The fact that all those plugins cause problems seems to be strange.

FWIW i am using all Waldorf plugins (PPG Wave 3.V, Largo, Waldorf Edition, Largo) on Windows 7 and Ableton Live 9 without any problems.

Personally i don't see how to sucessfully replace both PPG Wave 3.V and Largo. There are maybe othe wavetable synths but none of them got the same sound and the same wavetables. Good luck finding a full replacement (except with the Blofeld maybe).

Ingo

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Wed May 22, 2013 1:51 am

Ingonator wrote:The fact that all those plugins cause problems seems to be strange.

FWIW i am using all Waldorf plugins (PPG Wave 3.V, Largo, Waldorf Edition, Largo) on Windows 7 and Ableton Live 9 without any problems.

Personally i don't see how to sucessfully replace both PPG Wave 3.V and Largo. There are maybe othe wavetable synths but none of them got the same sound and the same wavetables. Good luck finding a full replacement (except with the Blofeld maybe).

Ingo

Hi Ingo,

Thanks for posting. Yeah, unfortunately if I have to choose between Logic and Waldorf, Logic's going to win that fight every single time. I'm just far too involved with Logic to abandon it.

I've been playing with Zebra's wavetable oscillators and found that they get pretty close to the sound I'm looking for, especially when modulating them. Synthmaster also has pretty flexible distortion curves that can go pretty far in emulating Largo's filters when you set the type to digital and crank the input. I do still like Largo for wavetables, but not if it keeps crashing.

I do wish Waldorf had a better structured support system, sort of like fxpansion, so it's easier to keep track of requests. I also prefer the ability actually register software. It's kind of weird sending a support e-mail on a product that you don't even have a serial number for, and there's no autoreply to let you know if they even got it.

-Sam

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed May 22, 2013 1:58 am

You mention you've updated OSX. But have you tried doing a clean re-install? That might be a good idea, particularly after changing the motherboard out from under it.

noiseprovesnothing · Post by **noiseprovesnothing** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:02 am

I'll concur with the other posters here - it's Logic. Specifically, their 32 bit bridge.

I hope Apple gets their stuff together with Logic 10. They have a LOT of catching up to do.

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:21 am

AdmiralQuality wrote:You mention you've updated OSX. But have you tried doing a clean re-install? That might be a good idea, particularly after changing the motherboard out from under it.

Hm...I'm actually still running Lion because I've heard some bad stuff about the GUI problem Logic had with 10.8

. Have all of these issues been fixed?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/41 ... 0&tstart=0

[MODs: please delete this link if it's not allowed. I figured Apple.com might be allowed because it's not a competing site If I'm wrong, please let me know. Thanks.]

I'll certainly consider giving that a try. Thanks!

noiseprovesnothing wrote:I'll concur with the other posters here - it's Logic. Specifically, their 32 bit bridge.

I hope Apple gets their stuff together with Logic 10. They have a LOT of catching up to do.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. I thought Logic only utilized the 32 bit bridge when running it in 64 bit with 32 bit plugins. Is this incorrect? I'm still running Logic in 32.

I hope they keep advanced features like the Environment. They would probably have to if they intended to allow backwards compatibility with Logic 9, right? I just pray to god they don't do what they did with Final Cut [shudder].

Thanks.

-Sam

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:30 am

masterhiggins wrote:
AdmiralQuality wrote:You mention you've updated OSX. But have you tried doing a clean re-install? That might be a good idea, particularly after changing the motherboard out from under it.
Hm...I'm actually still running Lion because I've heard some bad stuff about the GUI problem Logic had with 10.8 . Have all of these issues been fixed?

Whatever version (though I understand it may be difficult to locate install disks for older versions). It's just that if motherboard hardware changes after install, I'm not always confident that it's properly detected. It's obviously not something they can test every contingency of.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/41 ... 0&tstart=0

[MODs: please delete this link if it's not allowed. I figured Apple.com might be allowed because it's not a competing site If I'm wrong, please let me know. Thanks.]

No issues with linking to anywhere on KVR. They're not in denial that other boards exist.

I'll certainly consider giving that a try. Thanks!

noiseprovesnothing wrote:I'll concur with the other posters here - it's Logic. Specifically, their 32 bit bridge.

I hope Apple gets their stuff together with Logic 10. They have a LOT of catching up to do.
Sorry, I'm a bit confused. I thought Logic only utilized the 32 bit bridge when running it in 64 bit with 32 bit plugins. Is this incorrect? I'm still running Logic in 32.

That should be correct. If it's Logic then every user of your plug-in should be having the same issue. Obviously they're not, so it's something particular to your system.

umd · Post by **umd** » Wed May 22, 2013 2:35 am

I would recommend trying to boot with an Ubuntu CD and run the "memory test option". If there's any problem with your RAM, it can cause those errors.

( Don't know by heart which is the shortcut key to boot from the DVD/CD drive in a Mac, but a google search should get you there pretty quick )

Asuyuka · Post by **Asuyuka** » Wed May 22, 2013 6:50 pm

umd wrote:I would recommend trying to boot with an Ubuntu CD and run the "memory test option". If there's any problem with your RAM, it can cause those errors.

( Don't know by heart which is the shortcut key to boot from the DVD/CD drive in a Mac, but a google search should get you there pretty quick )

In Old World Macs, it was Apple. I think on New World, its Command.

cyphersuit · Post by **cyphersuit** » Wed May 22, 2013 7:05 pm

OT: I gave up on Stillwell Plugins. Crashing all DAWs. No fix for over a year.

fisherKing · Post by **fisherKing** » Thu May 23, 2013 12:14 am

all my plugins are 64bit (except sylenth1, which hasn't been updated since the 1800's)...
EVERYTHING works fine in logic...only the z3ta+2 had issues that were never resolved.
i'm running L9 in 10.8.3, and no issues; even the 32bit bridge (which crashes sometimes) is more stable than previously...

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Thu May 23, 2013 1:42 am

Regardless of apple/windoze, this kinda thing has been going on at least as long as I've been a member here. What works for some, may not for others. It's not surprising that it works on one host, and not on another. Bridges, ram, whatever, there are so many things that can cause it. Is it ok for me to mention that the one thing I cut ties with is sonar? I know it's not a plug but I'm done. I just completely gave up. I don't care about future updates, I don't care about if it works for others, it simply does not function properly for me. I've cut my ties with that.

EDIT, oh yeah, speaking of cakewalk, "dimension pro" also. I'll never use it again. Buggy as all get-out.

When to give up on a plugin (crashing, etc)?