Open and Closed headphones -- fatigue difference?

[schnapsglas]

I said on another thread some time ago something that might have implied open headphones have an advantage that they may be less fatiguing. But I think it may be the other way around and I was wrong.

There are few variables here, like how closed headphones actually offer more isolation, hence less need to up the volume for the dynamic range... now what I'm thinking is, do we turn on the volume to hear the dynamic range, or to get the right loudness contour?

Another thing I am thinking is that all speakers have some form of compression, and I think this may differ greatly between these two types.

What do you think? Or even better, any experts?

[theodore_whitmore]

I've been wondering about this myself. I've got a pair of (pretty poor) closed back headphones. If I've spent a long time listening to repetitive content (like tweaking a synth patch) then whip off the ear goggles I get a weird, lingering comb-filtering effect that can be so strong it's physically disorientating. Has anyone else noticed such an aural after-image?

[gassle]

I switch between Sennheiser HD598 (open); Sony MDR-7506 (closed) and KRK 8400 (closed) for work.

While HD598 has a more neutral curve that's easier on ear than the other two, there are a few other reasons that makes it more pleasure to work for me for extended period because it's open.

1. They don't feel as isolated as closed cans. When there is a moment of silence you don't feel like in vacuum or womb. With open headphones you might even forget they are there if they are comfortable too which is good.

2. Stereo image of open headphones are less "unnatural" than closed headphones. With closed cans sounds seem to come totally in my head while with open headphones there is a bit leak between ears which sounds a bit more natural.

3. Good open headphones have less resonance of lower frequencies trapped inside cans and more natural low end response.

[cryophonik]

I switch between BD DT880s (semi-open), AKG K701s (open), and Sennheiser HD280 Pros (closed). There's no question in my mind - fatigue sets in much quicker on the HD280s. That midrange boxiness, hyped low end, and resonance just tires my ears within a half hour or so, and even a short break doesn't help that much. In contrast, I can (and do) use the 880s and 701s for hours (with frequent short breaks, of course) without getting fatigued.

One obvious point to consider is how loud you're mixing. Personally, I really like my hearing and I tend to mix on the moderate-to-quiet side when using headphones, and just crank it up occasionally for very short periods to hear how it sounds at a louder level. I do most of the final mix (including checking it at louder levels) on my monitors.

[Mister Natural]

similar to Gassle ^, I need to vary the cans to keep from being irritated for long stretches. I switch from AT m50s to my old Senn 560s to Shure in-ears.
I really think having a couple of different models to choose from is essential for long sessions

[schnapsglas]

I am starting to recommend NOT using open headphones for mixing when you have a hum from computer, or some consistent background noise, especially if you prefer to hear everything quiet in your mix. I use DT990 and KNS6400 myself and I noticed when I cannot hear something on DT990, it is better to just switch headphones, especially if you've got HVAC or something.

[schnapsglas]

I've been wondering about this myself. I've got a pair of (pretty poor) closed back headphones. If I've spent a long time listening to repetitive content (like tweaking a synth patch) then whip off the ear goggles I get a weird, lingering comb-filtering effect that can be so strong it's physically disorientating. Has anyone else noticed such an aural after-image?

I am thinking this has to do with the level of isolation. I wish I could get an answer from an expert in psychoacoustics, but I do have that "comb-filtering" thing. But of course, what we should work for is towards safety, and my concern is that open headphones may give you a false sense of quietness when it is actually quite loud.

Like watching a computer screen in complete darkness vs a somewhat lighted environment, if you will.

[sharke]

I have a pair of ATH M-50's which have pretty good isolation and sound very flat for the price. I also have a set of Grado SRi-80's which have virtually no isolation, and sound less flat.

While the ATH M-50's are obviously far more useful for mixing duties (and I have a VRM box for night mixing), they bother me somewhat because I have tinnitus. It's not something that bothers me unless I'm in silence, in which case it sounds quite loud. When I put the ATH M-50's on, I immediately notice my tinnitus because of the isolation.

So for everything else, I use the Grados. I wouldn't use them for making EQ decisions because they have a tendency of making everything sound so damned sweet

[camsr]

Closed cans usually have more bass than open, which is somewhat more natural to listen to. I have Grado sr125 and I use EQ to boost the bass because it sounds too flat for good translation. I noticed when I do use the EQ, it's more pleasing to listen to. The main problem with bass boost and headphones is damage to the drivers at high volume. In defense of the sr125, the sound is absolutely clean and forward at low volume.

[camsr]

I've been wondering about this myself. I've got a pair of (pretty poor) closed back headphones. If I've spent a long time listening to repetitive content (like tweaking a synth patch) then whip off the ear goggles I get a weird, lingering comb-filtering effect that can be so strong it's physically disorientating. Has anyone else noticed such an aural after-image?

After a while in cans my ears tend to feel a bit burnt. Must keep the volume low.