KVR Audio

joeyfivecents · Post by **joeyfivecents** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:51 am

This is for anyone who has Amplitube: Is there a way to get an old Fender Deluxe type sound out of Amplitube? what I want is that big overblown Neil young guitar sound and I know this is the amp he uses but I can't quite get it. any ideas?

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:23 am

I thought he used a bassman through a Twin(maybe) bottom.

Maybe that was only in the old days.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:29 am

It probably depends on the era. The presence of a bassman is certainly there in much of his work. I wonder if he uses a fuzz pedal, too, though-- on some albums, the distortion is too trashy for a straight-up bassman. That might be the missing ingredient.

Greg

Peel · Post by **Peel** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:00 am

Around the time the press decided to put that stupid "godfather of grunge" label on him (Ragged Glory, Weld, etc -- early 90s), he was big on *not* using any distortion pedals or preamp distortion -- just cranked power amp / speaker distortion. For heavy distortion his basic sound was gtr->delay->mutron octave divider->Fender Deluxe. He also had a self-built device stuck on the Fender where he could hit a switch & the device would physically turn the knobs on the amp to a different "preset." So that's what he's sometimes doing when it sounds like he's stomping on a pedal.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:05 am

Cool. What a nutbar.

brianbrian · Post by **brianbrian** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:12 am

As far as I know Neil Young used only his Fender amp cranked as high as it would go. Just saturated power tubes and the cabinet supplying the crunch. I don't use amplitude but you might be able to approximate this with a Fender Twin or Bassman model (I'm not sure what Amplitude includes), maybe with a slight boost (tube screamer or trebel booster type pedal) before the amp to make it saturate faster. Make sure the volume is at 10 and keep the bass down to around 4 (those Fenders put out some serious farty bass at any higher settings). Try selecting a 4x10 cabinet or a 2x12. Ideally you should mix the two and adjust the mix to zero in on the sound you like. Also try fattening the tone a little with a short delay (20-30ms) to add some depth to it.

ew · Post by ew » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:41 am

Actually,during the 90s,Neil's sound was a combination of two amps-the Fender and an old Baldwin

ew

joeyfivecents · Post by **joeyfivecents** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:33 am

thanks everyone. Just wondering if anyone could do an amplitube preset. I keep trying but it doesn't sound the way I want it to. http://www.soundclick.com/gradynickel

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:41 am

Neil and I both like choo-choo trains. Neil's CRAZY about Lionel - and has an AMAZING layout.

A cool amp that could maybe do a good grungy Neil Young tone... Krakli's trAmp plug in. It's got a unique overdrive sound that reminded me of Neil atleast. And, it's FREE.

http://www.krakli.co.uk/

Old man, take a look at that amp
It's alot like Neils is...

joeyfivecents · Post by **joeyfivecents** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:00 am

thanks a bunch!

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:55 am

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:32 am

I believe that he's using some sort of booster (IIRC a treble booster) in addition to his funny "total recall" mechanic thing.

Apart from that, I've once seen him live, was a rather huge festival and believe me, he almost didn't need any P.A. for his guitar - the amp was unbelieavably cranked up!
I would die from even playing a single note in front of such an amp...

jPod · Post by **jPod** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:51 am

There was a great write-up of Neil's road rig in the March '92 issue of Guitar Player -- so the word from his tech guy was:

The first thing the signal always sees is the input of a Fender Reverb
unit. The reverb pan is not in the unit; it's usually underneath the stage.
This one happens to be more susceptible to vibration than some other pans,
but it has the tone he likes. He can tell when I try to substitute another
reverb pan. It's really important to have the old-style, funny-shaped 6K6
as the reverb's driver tube, rather than a 6V6. Of course, that first 12AX7
is extremely important, and the reverb is rarely off.

For his cleanest, hottest signal, we have a loop bypass that makes his
reverb unit go straight into the amplifier, a four-input '59 tweed Fender
Deluxe. On top of the amp is a Whizzer, a device that physically turns the
amp's knobs. Neil came up with the idea, and Sal Trentino, his amp tech,
made the first one. This was a two position Whizzer that he used starting on
"Rust Never Sleeps" in '78. The new one was made by Rick Davis in '91. It's
got four presets that completely control the three knobs on the top of the
amp. He locks in the preset he wants, and it will always go back to that
particular spot. We find that when you have the volume and tone all the way
up, by turning that second volume knob up to about 10, it starts to fade
away. But right before it starts to fade away, something else happens, and that
has to be in EXACTLY the right position. You can't breathe on it, or it f**ks it all up.

Here are Neil's Whizzer settings: For the highest volume, we have both the
tone and the main volume on 12, and that second volume knob is at about 9.9.
When it's really compressed and breahting and screaming, that's what's going
on. You can hear it on "Cortez". If we push it past 9.9, the sound goes
away. The next button down moves his volume to 10, which just cleans it up.
It's still broken up, but it's less garbled. The third button sets his
volume on 6 with that other volume still at 9.9 and the tone down just a
little. The fourth preset moves one volume to 3, the other volume to 0, and
backs off the tone a bit; it's really bright and clean, almost country sounding.

He activates the settings via footswitches on the red box that's always in
front of him. Across the slanted part that's closest to him are five
buttons: Four buttons control the volumes on the Whizzer, and one for the
reverb kill. Inside the box are all these relays and the actual effects
devices. There are seven buttons on the top plateau of the box. The one on
the left hand side is mute and tune: You step on that and no sound comes out
of the amplifier. We have five Strobe-O-Tuners up there, one for each note
in standard tuning. The next one is for a green, AC-powered MXR analog
delay that's mainly used in conjunction with the next button, an ancient
Mutron octave divider. That's used for "Out of the Blue" when we really want
to fatten up the octave divider. The next button is for a master loop that
switches any of the top devices in and out, except the tube reverb. The next
one is for a real strange unit, a large, very old Boss flanger in a blue
cast-metal box. He hits that only when he wants to get totally crazy. The
next one controls an Alesis Microverb that's in a strange setting with 100%
reverb. When he plays it, it's almost atonal and you can hardly tell what
note it is. It gets that high-frequency feedback squeal. Used in conjunction
with other things, it gets some very bizarre sounds. The next button is for
his main effect, the Echoplex, which remains on a lot. He'll leave the
Echoplex on and hit the loop button on and off to activate the other stuff.
We use sizzling hot cable-not guitar cable, but hard RF stuff-and we don't
loose anything in this loop. From there the signal goes into the Deluxe.

I have fans pumping a lot of air into the back of the Deluxe, since we've
rebiased the amps to use 6L6s. We have the speaker there, plus the extension
speaker output, which has been significantly padded down with a volume knob.
The signal then goes into a Magnatone 280 stereo vibrato-the Lonnie Mack
amp-with two 12s. Onstage, it's inside the giant amplifier that's right
behind Neil's rig, along with a Baldwin Exterminator, a big, tall amp made
around 1971. It's got two 15s, two 12s, and two 8s, all in the same cabinet.
It's transistorized and has a special sound that Neil likes. But basically
he can't hear any of these amplifiers when he's standing onstage. They're
history.

FWIW I've gotten some descent NY imitations out of my POD2 with several different amp models. The most imortant points I've found in trying to imitate his sound are 1) use a "Fender" amp model with a small cabinet setting (1 or 2x12 or 4x10 usually work), 2) Don't over crank the gain -- "old amp cranked" distortion is not the same as "tripple rectifier" distortion, and 3) Use compression -- an amp's power tubes compress in a distinct way when pushed really hard and unless Amplitube is really good at modelling that behaviour the easiest way to imitate it is with some compression. Like the tech guy says in the excerpt, you can hear on the "Cortez" solos the notes have a sort of squelched attack and expand as they're held.

Hope there's something interesting/useful for you in there.

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:19 am

Very interesting. Thanks for digging that up and sharing!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:21 am

Lunch Money wrote:Very interesting. Thanks for digging that up and sharing!

Yeah... I remember reading this very article translated in some german guitar mag.

But seriously, which normal mortal being (namely guitarists) could afford such a setup? I mean, it's not even about the money (well, it is...), but you just can't maintain such a setup without a fulltime guitar tech.

I need a Neil Young amplitube sound