Mastering for commercial loudness

[asagaai]

Hi all.

This question has probably been asked to death, but I note no real answers from other forums on the question. I am presently recording a CD, and have done 2 tracks. 1 track is "finished"(is it ever?) -problem is getting the volume achieved by other CD's-which seem to have incredible volume. I am using Traktion 2, used RNC compression on in (drums uncompressed-new york compression in sequencer). The only way I can think to get the volume is to compress to crap in the Master plugin, and set the soft limiter so that it is often/always working? I just burnt another take-soft limiter "clipping" 2 or 3 times"-no audible distortion, but still nowhere near the volume of other similar CD's available commercially. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I also cannot help but feel that the music loses its dynamics and soul when achieving loudness for the sake of it? Is anyone out there mastering not for loudness but for the sound?

Gavin Jensen

[tidyguyver]

its a catch 22 isn't it, tracks always sound better without limiting the f**k out of them, but then they won't stand out next to tracks with a higher percieved loudness, i personally have two versions of my tracks, one with limiting on the master and one without...


if you can't achieve a loud mix using limiting that compares to commercial cd's then its probably down to flaws in your mixdown, if the frequencies aren't properly balanced then it will 'limit' (no pun intended) the amount of percievbed loudness you can achieve, i hope this makes sense.

long live dynamics! lol

[sinkmusic]

A good eq, track by track and on the master, can make your whole mix really louder...

[C00kie]

Yup. Just use a compressor on the dynamic tracks (drums, vocals, bass, anything but already overdriven guitar) and some eq. Then after normalising the average loudness should be above -20dB which was the norm for many many years.

Fukc the loudness race, just turn up the volume of you amp!

[pinga]

Is anyone out there mastering not for loudness but for the sound?

Yes i am.


Forget loudness its on the way out.

In three to four years most people will not be trying to achieve these insane levels.

I can get it as loud as you want provided you dont hand me a shitty digitally distorted harsh f**ked up mix, but in order for me to do so you will have to ask very nicely.

[camsr]

Loudness is really based on EQ and spectral balance. These tracks sound loud because they have a certain spectral curve to them. Suggest you play around with SPAN and some loud tracks and compare the average levels of them to your mixes.

[beej]

Forget loudness its on the way out.
In three to four years most people will not be trying to achieve these insane levels.

Yeah because the music industry is run by audiophiles, and kids are far happier to download 100meg+ 24bit wav versions of songs to play on their super hi-end hifi's instead of the mp3/ipod trend which is obviously in decline.

Welcome to La-la Land...

[jkotz]

Since you're doing this in a home studio, using Traktion, what not "master" so that the recording sounds good to you rather than just "as loud as everyone else"? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't the odds of Clear-channel slotting this recording into heavy rotation fairly slim? That being the case, why does your music need to as competitively loud as the latest pop song of the day?
Dynamic recordings still sound dynamic at 128 kbps from an iPod. Perhaps not as good as they would uncompressed, but loudness won't make them sound any better.
Master your stuff so that it sounds good via lots of playback methods. After you get signed you can let the suits at Sony or Warner worry about normalizing the life out of your songs.

[jkotz]

For a good look at the "Loudness" progression in modern recordings, check out this link: http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/dyn ... namics.htm

[tmoons007]

I think loudness only matters if your work is being compared to other music. Unfortunately, that's usually the case. In my experience, it's inevitable that my stuff gets played before/after professional recordings, and comparisons are drawn. When I play my music for people, I dislike having to turn up the stereo to get it as loud as the professional recording I've just listened to. As much as I hate to admit, if it's not as loud, it just doesn't seem to rock as hard.

That said, Mike Richter gives a great diatribe on commercial loudness. I think loudness is definitely overdone. If there are no dynamics, there are no quiet parts. And quiet parts make the loud parts seem that much louder!

There must be some middle ground, somewhere between Ricky Martin and undcompressed home studio work. I guess a lot of it depends on the genre/what your music is being compared to. Clearly, there's a tradeoff between dynamics and loudness, and the pro recording industry leans toward loudness. It sucks that pro recordings are a benchmark to which DIY music is often compared.

[9b0]

asagaai: you don't have to loose too much dynamix if you have a good mixdown. This means to me, that you have to arrange your tracks in a way, that every instrument becomes it's own place on the frequency spectrum (minimize the amount of overlapping frequencies between your tracks... a spectrum analyzer and a good monitoring equipment can be of big help for you). This can be done by good selection of samples/well recorded/processed tracks (i mean right compresses/limited), or EQ-ing/filtering. If your mixdown is good enough you don't need to do much to get the volume right, a limiter/maximizer will do the job for you.

In the beginning it helps a lot to listen to a reference track on the same system as you do your music to find the differences.

[1undread]

A multifrequency compressor/exciter is the way to go.
If you compress and limit the whole track you will get a flat, dead sound. You will also loose the brightness in certain frequencies.
If you can aford it Ozone3 (native instruments) does the job very well. It also helps with eq, reverb, ect...
Sometimes a track does not compare well because, even though both tracks are at the same volume different frequencies are not.
Spectural analysis helps.
Also compare your tracks to your favorite artist as you mix down (so your eqs are right)

I hope this is useful

[Peel]

I dunno, I think multiband compressors can give you the "flat, dead" sound at least as easliy as single-bands.
Besides compression, filter out unwanted frequency ranges from each track. The main problem is too much slop in the low frequencies. Highpass everything that doesn't need bass frequencies (ie usually everything except bass & kick drum). If you have more than one instrument in the bass (as you usually will), try to keep them from stepping on each other, as much as possible -- either with EQ, sidechaining compression, or the song arrangement itself. And of course, check for sub-audible frequencies & try to filter them out as much as you can without knocking off wanted bass.
The less slop you have (especially in the bass), the more you can raise your levels before clipping.
And finally, if you're anticipating any airplay, remember that radio stations always use a compressor of their own. Because of the attack/decay on the compressor, on the radio, a song with some dynamics & transients left intact can actually sound louder than one that's been squashed flat.

[man-T]

A multifrequency compressor/exciter is the way to go.
If you compress and limit the whole track you will get a flat, dead sound. You will also loose the brightness in certain frequencies.
If you can aford it Ozone3 (native instruments) does the job very well. It also helps with eq, reverb, ect...
Sometimes a track does not compare well because, even though both tracks are at the same volume different frequencies are not.
Spectural analysis helps.
Also compare your tracks to your favorite artist as you mix down (so your eqs are right)

i agree, if you have the money, go buy a high end dynamics processor unit,with multi band functions, i worked ( for a short while ) in a studio where ( believe it or not.) they would sometimes just run the 'wizard'function of the tc finalizer to 'master'' a track.... and behold.... very loud ......... but was it nice????....hmmm oh well,, i don't work there anymore.. so what do i know..


anyway, i think the loudness issue is especially important ( no i am not saying it is not important in music at all....) when dealing with commercials.... think how you have to run for the remote of your tv when there is a commercial break...

[bduffy]

Ozone 3 is by Izotope, not Native Instruments, btw.