Bitwig 5.2 BETA available

[pdxindy]

But only with workarounds.....
Too much hassle........

You have already spent far more time arguing about it than it takes to make a preset and save it or even save it as the Polymer default.

[Jac459]

I don't follow you Trancit. I don't use polymer very often but if you disable the filter and put an oscillator or waveform behind your signal path, you will see that you get a perfect sine.
Where is the clipping you are talking about ?

Really???
Perhaps you have a different Polymer version than me or you are using the wrong measurement tools...
I guess you meant to put an oscilloscope behind... and this is to broad to see if a sine is "pure"...
A spectrum meter is the better choice...

This is the default Serum just set to Basic Shapes and played a "C2":
Serum.jpg
.
This is how a pure sine wave looks like... just the fundamental without any overtones!

I now put a default Polymer onto the track... changed the Union Osc to a Sine, disabled the filter, set the Sub Osc to -inf and disabled the HP filter as far as possible...
This is the default result:
Polymer.jpg
.
This is a pure sine wave??? Are you kidding me??
This is a huge mess of dirt and absolutely BS to deliver this as default behaviour in a synth...
What shall I think about a bunch of developers who think this would be the best possible default solution they can offer??

And it´s not just Serum delivers such a clean result as it should be... Sylenth1, Avenger, Phase Plant, Rapid, Vital, you name it... they all show the same identical default behaviour: a single clean fundamental at the played frequency... so all must be wrong, right??

Anyway... all of you will no tell anyway that they are perfectly fine with it and it doesn´t matter at all and the Bitwig´s are they greatest... so I am out again...

Man you are agitated...

Thank you very much for taking the time for a long answer.

But if you were in front of me, I would have first proposed you to sit down, drink a glass of water, breath into a paper bag...

It is ok man... Nobody wants to hurt you.

So... About what you said.
I finally put my hands out of my ass and remembered that I do have a proper spectrum as I have Pro Q3.

So yes, I have the same polymer than you.
Yes, I do finally find the overtones you are talking about.
Yes, it is not a normal behaviour and certainly a bug.

but...

This is a huge mess of dirt and absolutely BS to deliver this as default behaviour in a synth...

is a bit like hummm exaggerated ....

I guess it is part of your "agitated" nature, as when you were answering my question by putting multiple question marks at almost each of your sentences...

Maybe as an honest feedback, you should consider the fact that expressing things with more measure will make you actually more convincing...

And definitely, rejecting a full DAW and the company creating it as "total BS" because of a bug in on of their synth seems a bit... exaggerated. Just write to the support, report it as a bug and end of the story.

[Trancit]

...
Yes, it is not a normal behaviour and certainly a bug.

No, it´s not a bug... it´s a decision they made to turn on the clipping option on the audio out of the grid...
If you convert this Polymer into a grid patch and turn off the clipping from the audio out module you are back to a normal sine wave again...

And this was what vroteg was simply refering to... they simply make silly decisions...

It´s not that they aren´t able to deliver a good result... it´s bad decisions which by the way run through the whole programm which makes Bitwig sometimes annoying to use... let it be the silly by default oversampling if you need it or not or in this case turning on clipping on the audio out by default which more often hurts than doing any good...

And definitely, rejecting a full DAW and the company creating it as "total BS" because of a bug in on of their synth seems a bit... exaggerated. Just write to the support, report it as a bug and end of the story.

As it isn´t a bug it will not change as long as not enough users are nerving them like with the latency EQ+ "bug" ... another very good example for those silly decisions I mentioned...
I never said though to "reject the full DAW" because of this...(at least I cannot remember... old brain you know...)

I just got in again because everybody was bashing vroteg despite the fact that he is 100% correct with what he was saying... without workarounds Polymer isn´t able to spit out the easiest thing on the world for a synth: a clean pure sine wave... if this isn´t ridiculous , I don´t know what is... and if you like it or not... he´s 100% right.

[Bjørnson]

I just got in again because everybody was bashing vroteg despite the fact that he is 100% correct with what he was saying... without workarounds Polymer isn´t able to spit out the easiest thing on the world for a synth: a clean pure sine wave... if this isn´t ridiculous , I don´t know what is... and if you like it or not... he´s 100% right.

The thing with pure sine waves in substractive synth design is, that they are the least interesting sound source and every design I know tweaks them to more pleasant results. So I don‘t get the whole discussion from a sound design perspective… What do you use them for that makes them in purer form so important?

[Jac459]

...
Yes, it is not a normal behaviour and certainly a bug.

No, it´s not a bug... it´s a decision they made to turn on the clipping option on the audio out of the grid...
If you convert this Polymer into a grid patch and turn off the clipping from the audio out module you are back to a normal sine wave again...

And this was what vroteg was simply refering to... they simply make silly decisions...

It´s not that they aren´t able to deliver a good result... it´s bad decisions which by the way run through the whole programm which makes Bitwig sometimes annoying to use... let it be the silly by default oversampling if you need it or not or in this case turning on clipping on the audio out by default which more often hurts than doing any good...

And definitely, rejecting a full DAW and the company creating it as "total BS" because of a bug in on of their synth seems a bit... exaggerated. Just write to the support, report it as a bug and end of the story.

As it isn´t a bug it will not change as long as not enough users are nerving them like with the latency EQ+ "bug" ... another very good example for those silly decisions I mentioned...
I never said though to "reject the full DAW" because of this...(at least I cannot remember... old brain you know...)

I just got in again because everybody was bashing vroteg despite the fact that he is 100% correct with what he was saying... without workarounds Polymer isn´t able to spit out the easiest thing on the world for a synth: a clean pure sine wave... if this isn´t ridiculous , I don´t know what is... and if you like it or not... he´s 100% right.

Well it isn't a technical bug but a functional bug then no ?

Anyway, clearly you are right on saying that it is a bad decision and therefor you were right also to defend Vortex also as he was right also .
As per if I like it or not, well I would have preferred being right :-p but really it doesn't matter much.

As per the 2 other cases you mention, I stand by what I think I told you last time we discussed, if the biggest problem of Bitwig is not proposing oversampling selector on some of their devices, they must be very proud...
To me it feels like somebody going to a gorgeous dream hotel and complaining because of few wrinkle in a bedsheet...

At the end of the day, I prefer concentrate on the 99% full glass and discuss in this forum how to better drink it than steering bitterness over the upsetting 1% empty glass.

I think this is a question of personality and nothing wrong about thinking differently. But as it was previously mentioned, maybe it is good to create specific threads for the specific issues and stick to discussing Beta 2 new features in the Beta 2 thread.

[Jac459]

I just got in again because everybody was bashing vroteg despite the fact that he is 100% correct with what he was saying... without workarounds Polymer isn´t able to spit out the easiest thing on the world for a synth: a clean pure sine wave... if this isn´t ridiculous , I don´t know what is... and if you like it or not... he´s 100% right.

The thing with pure sine waves in substractive synth design is, that they are the least interesting sound source and every design I know tweaks them to more pleasant results. So I don‘t get the whole discussion from a sound design perspective… What do you use them for that makes them in purer form so important?

Well, with 512 instances of polymer, you can do additive synthesis .

[perpetual3]

The bad vibes that surround a Bitwig beta. Damn.

[Bjørnson]

Well, with 512 instances of polymer, you can do additive synthesis .

Also test tone is your friend for pure sines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZfH8WKgd_c

[Jac459]

Well, with 512 instances of polymer, you can do additive synthesis .

Also test tone is your friend for pure sines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZfH8WKgd_c

I am sure that with a few of those, a few good modulations, you can do quite nice synthesis already...

[Jac459]

The bad vibes that surround a Bitwig beta. Damn.

In particular when you factor the fact that it is weekend. We should all be happy.

[pdxindy]

Perhaps you have a different Polymer version than me

I have the same Polymer... I just know how to use it. I get a nice clean sine anytime I want.

[pdxindy]

What do you use them for that makes them in purer form so important?

It's useful to add a clean sine as a fundamental or sub.

And once again, it is easy to get a clean sine in Polymer. Trancit is just caught up in arguing and is now spouting bs...

[Trancit]

It's useful to add a clean sine as a fundamental or sub.

And once again, it is easy to get a clean sine in Polymer. Trancit is just caught up in arguing and is now spouting bs...

Out of curiosity... what are your steps to get a clean sine out of the default Polymer??

[BobDog]

Just turn off "soft clipping"

[Trancit]

Just turn off "soft clipping"

Means you have to convert it into a Poly Grid, no??

Until now I didn´t find any method to change it in Polymer itself but perhaps I miss something...