A move from Ableton 9 Suite to enhance MIDI workflow

[Jaaba]

(my first post in this forum, although I've been member here for a little longer)

I've been using Ableton 9 Suite for some years now (a Windows 10 user). Because I'm now getting more into MIDI stuff I have found that its MIDI editing capabilities are not always very much to my liking. Furthermore, the version 9 has no support for VST3.

I downloaded Cakewalk since it was still available and also got the cheaper version of Mixcraft 9 with the Humble Bundle pack. I haven't had time to test them yet.

So now I'm wondering what to do.
1) Upgrade to Ableton 11 Suite. I like many of the instruments in the 9. I don't know is the MIDI editing much improved in 11 though.
2) Move to another DAW and use the Blue Cat Connector so that I can still use the instruments from Live 9 that I like.

But what would the other DAW be? I'm just a hobbyist so I'm not going to spend several hundreds euros to the new one.

The music I do is quite traditional pop/rock, using virtual instruments based on real ones (guitar, bass, drums, classical instruments). My heart is in the 80's, so I'm not into modern dance music.

What are your recommendations for the next DAW with emphasis on MIDI features? Thanks in advance!

[vitocorleone123]

Try Studio One and Cubase.

[gruberman]

First thing you should do is to try Mixcraft. It's an excellent and simple DAW that has all the regular features. Be aware tho, it comes with a bunch of 32-bit SE stuff so if that's not your cup of tea use third-party stuff.

[machinesworking]

I've been using Ableton 9 Suite for some years now (a Windows 10 user). Because I'm now getting more into MIDI stuff I have found that its MIDI editing capabilities are not always very much to my liking.

The big question there is what are you missing MIDI wise? I use Live, but also use Digital Performer and Reaper which both do much much more with MIDI. I miss better quantization options, SysEx support, among other things when using Live. There are Max plugins I'm guessing for MIDI FX.

Everyone is going to suggest what they use, I'm on Mac, but Reaper and DP are cross platform. They both have trial periods, with Reapers basically never ending. DP is "new" on Windows, so using the trial period to see if it works on your system is important. Reaper however requires IMO some user configuring to get into a state where the MIDI editing is usable, varying by your preferences. Both of them and Cubase are the choices IMO for extensive MIDI editing capabilities, DP and Cubase being 30+ year old DAWs with active upgrades and stable companies in control of their code.

[Jaaba]

First thing you should do is to try Mixcraft. It's an excellent and simple DAW that has all the regular features. Be aware tho, it comes with a bunch of 32-bit SE stuff so if that's not your cup of tea use third-party stuff.

Yes, that's what I will certainly do, to give it a chance. If I find time I will have a look at Cakewalk too.

The big question there is what are you missing MIDI wise?

That's a good question. I actually don't know yet, nearly all my MIDI editing experience is from Ableton.
I know people do great things with it and the biggest reason for my problems must be between the chair and the keyboard. I often get stuck to simple things and spend a lot of time reading manual and forums to solve that.
I have some courses purchased from Groove3 and will be spending time with them before I make any further decisions.

(...) Reaper however requires IMO some user configuring to get into a state where the MIDI editing is usable, varying by your preferences. Both of them and Cubase are the choices IMO for extensive MIDI editing capabilities, DP and Cubase being 30+ year old DAWs with active upgrades and stable companies in control of their code.

I've got some experience of Reaper from fifteen years back, when I wasn't doing MIDI stuff at all. Even back then it was always in need of some more configuring to get things working nicely.
I hear many people praise Cubase and I see Cubase Pro 12 licenses sold about the same price as updating my Live 9 Suite to 11. It is tempting to get to Cubase wagon.

As I said, I don't do this for work. This is a hobby and I don't want to spend too much of my leisure time banging my head against DAW just to get simple, max 30-40 tracks songs done. It quickly takes the fun out of it.

Thanks to both of you of your opinions.

[Daru925]

I forgot but, can't you try suite for 30 days?
You can select and edit several midi tracks at once, apply scales etc.
Recording several takes and selecting the best bit is very useful.
Other daws do it, but since you're used to live, maybe try that first and decide what's the best for you?

[lolilol1975]

Cubase also has a yearly tax that they call "upgrade" or "support". The last upgrade to v12 costs $100 and brings almost nothing on the table.

[kritikon]

Studio One and Cubase as already mentioned.

Studio One is pretty much based on Cubase, but not quite as well featured and some differences. Dunno about their versions and pricing. Should be good for midi though, as it was started up by ex Cubase people. I imagine they sell cut down cheaper versions which likely fit your bill very well.

Cubase as mentioned, ages old and based on an extensive midi platform so it's seasoned and does its job extremely well. As for the above tax - irrelevant as you only upgrade to versions as you want. Old versions work perfectly well for a looooooong time until your Windows OS is out of date and likely even then. The only major upgrade that was essential was when it went 32bit -> 64bit. I upgrade only every 3rd or 4th version if that even. I once went for >10 yrs on an old version
You absolutely do NOT need Cubase Pro. Artist has all the important features of Pro, is half price and is incredibly powerful. I used pro versions for years, downgraded to Artist a few years ago and have never missed anything - I did it because there was so much in Pro that I just never used. TBH you could probably be quite happy with an even lesser version of Cubase and save even more money. I had a freebie version I got with my interface and it was surprisingly usable. Steinberg website has a table where you can find how many channels/inputs/outputs etc each version has. Artist has shitloads of everything.

Despite what predictable Cubase trolls will say, Cubase is THE original midi DAW standard. It was complete midi before DAWs even existed. It's the one all the others followed and for good reason. There are things like FL that are apparently really good for pattern based and step sequencer stuff but it doesn't do all the other general midi stuff anywhere near as well as Cubase.

[whyterabbyt]

Cubase also has a yearly tax that they call "upgrade" or "support". The last upgrade to v12 costs $100 and brings almost nothing on the table.

Yeah, and they come round your house and break your kneecaps if you dont upgrade.

[thecontrolcentre]

If you're used to Live 9 why not try the Live11 Suite Demo to see if it meets your needs? It's a fully functional 30-day demo iirc.

[Jaaba]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. After testing different alternatives with my current projects I went having a look at Cubase's tutorial videos. I was sold. It just clicked on many areas I've been struggling with Live. Of course, everything looks always easier on tutorials, but there were also some features shown that I'd been missing.

Since Live 12 didn't bring much new to my purposes I decided to get a used license of Cubase and got the 13 Pro at €250 from KVR's Buy/Sell subforum. I knew I could have got the Artist version a little cheaper, but I believe I have use for the Pro's Control Room feature.

Now it's just time to start learning more of Cubase's workflow.