The emotions behind chord choices

[the_nihilist]

Sounds like pianist envy.


(sorry, had to be done)

To be honest, I kind of feel bad for the wannabee guitarists who ended up playing keyboards. Usually the poor bastards end up playing shred keytar or dragonforce style wankery. If you wanna show off, play guitar!

[wrench45us]

the long interview I saw with Elton John he said he'd love to write a 3 chord song (as many a guitarist does), but it just doesn't happen
i think it does reveal an intention to keep things simple and Randy Newman even more sticks with the same simple intention.
the guitar has a lot of expressive possibilities of strum pattern and tone that don't translate as well to keyboard, so what a guitar can express one way, a keyboard might do by adding greater chordal movement.

what's of interest to me is that most songs written on piano tend to the flat keys esp Eb and Ab. And as my friend who just attended the Bluegrass festival in the Bay Area will testify most guitar based songs are in E A D G your sharp keys.
I can see why this would be with guitar just the way it's set up, but with piano it seems to be based on quality of sound of certain keys.
In this interview John admitted he preferred writing in Eb, but it made life miserable for his guitar players, so he made an effort to play in more guitar friendly keys.

If one goes through a music book compilation it's pretty easy to make a educated guesses re: what songs got written on guitar vs. piano.

[bobtheburninator]

Sounds like pianist envy.


(sorry, had to be done)

To be honest, I kind of feel bad for the wannabee guitarists who ended up playing keyboards. Usually the poor bastards end up playing shred keytar or dragonforce style wankery. If you wanna show off, play guitar!

you talk like being good at keyboard is somehow less of an accomplishment than guitar. i for one have played both for years and have come to the conclusion that a keyboard solos are way more awesome. and guess what, everyone shows off on guitar. it gets kinda boring after a while

[robogone]

If one goes through a music book compilation it's pretty easy to make a educated guesses re: what songs got written on guitar vs. piano.

There are exceptions to that. Paul Macartney always said that he tried to learn the chords used in songs from musicals when he had the intention of being primarily a songwriter, so some of his guitar compositions ended up having very unusual guitar chords. Most Beatles songbooks show the simplified version of the chord, but if you listen, the chords are often slightly more complex than shown.

I guess his guitar playing became influenced by composing piano songs, so he kind of did it backwards to most people. If you listen to his obviously piano composed songs, they often have much simpler chords than the guitar based stuff!

[wrench45us]

i'd say the Beatles in general are an exception to my inane rule as they absorbed and integrated all sorts of influences.
i don't know of any songwriters who get as much out of flipping from major to minor as they did, even in their very early efforts

Radiohead is another exception -- it's obviously a guitar band, but with a lot of suspended chords and layered 'structure' that sounds very keyboardish -- but their songs are overwhelmingly in guitar friendly keys

[DjHuge2k]

Monster thread....

IMHO, there are no rules to music, dont over anylize things, put your fingers on your instrument and play, practice makes perfect. When you get shivers from playing the correct progression
or the tone your instrument makes from one chord to the next.. remmember that progression
and hold on to it like it was your soulmate.. build the rest of your music just like that
play around with chords .. try unconventional methods of playing.. like holding a chord down
with both hands inverted.. might stumble upon something new and creative that works, thats how
i work, outside the box. Not trying to sound like a selfproclamed prodigy here but realy when
you start anylizing other peoples music and theory, you loose your self in what you like most.

bottom line, sit down and play, play, play. wish i knew more musical terms so i can explain my self better, but i guess ill be the blind .. trying to lead the blind..

[gambitron]

actually THIS is the exact kind of music theory i've always wanted... UNDERSTANDING the progressions and keys. every time i hear someone saying "to understand music, you must first learn how to READ it" i just want to kick them in the head. that is the OPPOSITE of intuitive improvisation.

just like these words you're reading, MOST people can express what they need to say even though many are illiterate.

i've studied my scales at least (forgotten) but never got near understanding different chord forms and key changes... the real meat and potatos of music.

why on earth would ANYONE recommend learning notation first and forcing people into the parrot box.

i'm still pretty ignorant about music theory especially where reading is concerned, but i DO have ideas running through my head constantly that i have no idea of what the mechanics are.

i CAN improvise the heck out of black keys though. LOL

[duncanparsons]

I once wrote a legato piece which followed the progression:
C#m->E->B->D#

=>i,III,VII,II ain't exactly common place, but it worked well with the melody, and it was unusual for a supertonic to sound almost dominant..

It's always nice to throw in some demented 9ths and follow them with replenished 7ths and diminished unison.

10cc did a great toon on "Deceptive Bends" called "I bought a flat Guitar Tutor" (words,chords)

DSP

[Lunatique]

Monster thread....

IMHO, there are no rules to music, dont over anylize things, put your fingers on your instrument and play, practice makes perfect. When you get shivers from playing the correct progression
or the tone your instrument makes from one chord to the next.. remmember that progression
and hold on to it like it was your soulmate.. build the rest of your music just like that
play around with chords .. try unconventional methods of playing.. like holding a chord down
with both hands inverted.. might stumble upon something new and creative that works, thats how
i work, outside the box. Not trying to sound like a selfproclamed prodigy here but realy when
you start anylizing other peoples music and theory, you loose your self in what you like most.

bottom line, sit down and play, play, play. wish i knew more musical terms so i can explain my self better, but i guess ill be the blind .. trying to lead the blind..

As much as I agree with the notion that playing around is the most satisfying, it is simply not going to work for certain types of music.

If a film/game/TV composer was composing, he would have to know exactly how to achieve suspense, tension, romance, comedy, action, horror, despair, loneliness, joy...etc with harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic structures that's suitable for expressing those emotions and feelings. You would not be scoring a horror film with a bunch of major chords--you'd need to use a lot of dissonant harmony to achieve that kind of tension--this is where music theory becomes extremely important.

On an even more advanced level, let's say you have a scene of a hero trying to save a child from a demonic creature--the cue require the composer to score a lot of very tense segments during the hero's fight against the demon, but the cue continues when the hero has slain the demon and rescued the child, and the child hugs him out of gratitude--that would require the composer to smooth out those dissonant harmonies and introduce resolution--that's a whole different type of feel and chord structure. If you don't know what different types of chords can express, then you'll be wasting a lot of time trying to reinvent the wheel (in reality you're just stumbling around trying to figure out what's already been established in music theory knowledge). But if you knew different types of dissonant chords and how to resolve them with harmonically pleasing chords, then you won't have to waste your time fiddling around.

[rounser]

You would not be scoring a horror film with a bunch of major chords

This is an oversimplification - if the cadence was such that you got a spooky result, sure you could. It's about the relationship between the chords, as much as or moreso than the sound of the chord in isolation.

[Lunatique]

You would not be scoring a horror film with a bunch of major chords

This is an oversimplification - if the cadence was such that you got a spooky result, sure you could. It's about the relationship between the chords, as much as or moreso than the sound of the chord in isolation.

Yes, it is an oversimplification. I was trying to make a simple point. If I were to go into more nuances and complexity, I'd be typing until the cows come home. I'm sure he'll understand my meaning though.