Setting up my new PC and thinking if there's a better way to browse 100gb of samplepacks. I'm looking at:
ADSR - Sample Manager
The frontrunner. It's free. Good basic features like categorising, tagging, BPM and tuning detection, simple sample editing and realtime previewing in the DAW. A little buggy but gets constant updates. I've used it before and probably will go with this if there isn't something much better. No fancy 'heatmap' type interface, such as....
Algonaut - Atlas
Not too expensive. Looks like a more creative way to browse and match up samples. Not sure I'd use the in-built sequencer over my DAW, but seems pretty comprehensive like a decent NI Battery alternative as well.
XLN - XO
Quite pricey - probably missed a good BF sale but I guess I can wait for another. The interface looks like a step up from Atlas. Has a standalone version too which might be handy. Thoughts?
Most importantly, is there anything else I should be considering?
Best 'Sample Manager' plugin?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4716 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
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- KVRian
- 1093 posts since 9 Apr, 2012
Sample manager or „One-Shot-Drumsample“ manager?
If you need something that works for mostly everything and not only drum stuff than check out Sononym. Only stand alone version btw. so no VST etc.
https://www.sononym.net/
And check out their blog with the release notes. This will give you a good impression of sononyms features.
https://www.sononym.net/blog/
And iirc they have a road map somewhere. Their update cycle is normally once per year. BF sales are 50% off.
For drums I prefer Atlas over everything else. I tried all of the ones you mentioned and like Atlas the most.
The sequencer fits my needs to make loops in seconds or minutes. Especially drawing multiple notes at once is such a timesaver. I don’t care about AI or not. I hit random until I have found something and lock the sample. And locking parameter like decay, filter, gain etc. is great as well. Multiple layouts, Multi Output, different midi mappings etc.
And a nice developer.
For drums=atlas, for searching my sample libraries=sononym.
https://youtu.be/VfKin1n_YaA?feature=shared
If you need something that works for mostly everything and not only drum stuff than check out Sononym. Only stand alone version btw. so no VST etc.
https://www.sononym.net/
And check out their blog with the release notes. This will give you a good impression of sononyms features.
https://www.sononym.net/blog/
And iirc they have a road map somewhere. Their update cycle is normally once per year. BF sales are 50% off.
For drums I prefer Atlas over everything else. I tried all of the ones you mentioned and like Atlas the most.
The sequencer fits my needs to make loops in seconds or minutes. Especially drawing multiple notes at once is such a timesaver. I don’t care about AI or not. I hit random until I have found something and lock the sample. And locking parameter like decay, filter, gain etc. is great as well. Multiple layouts, Multi Output, different midi mappings etc.
And a nice developer.
For drums=atlas, for searching my sample libraries=sononym.
https://youtu.be/VfKin1n_YaA?feature=shared
Underground Music Production: Sound Design, Machine Funk, High Tech Soul
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4716 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
Thank you for the very informative response. I've seen the name Sononym around before but never registered in my mind it was a sample manager. I'll certainly investigate it more.Halma wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:08 pm Sample manager or „One-Shot-Drumsample“ manager?
If you need something that works for mostly everything and not only drum stuff than check out Sononym. Only stand alone version btw. so no VST etc.
https://www.sononym.net/
And check out their blog with the release notes. This will give you a good impression of sononyms features.
https://www.sononym.net/blog/
And iirc they have a road map somewhere. Their update cycle is normally once per year. BF sales are 50% off.
For drums I prefer Atlas over everything else. I tried all of the ones you mentioned and like Atlas the most.
The sequencer fits my needs to make loops in seconds or minutes. Especially drawing multiple notes at once is such a timesaver. I don’t care about AI or not. I hit random until I have found something and lock the sample. And locking parameter like decay, filter, gain etc. is great as well. Multiple layouts, Multi Output, different midi mappings etc.
And a nice developer.
For drums=atlas, for searching my sample libraries=sononym.
https://youtu.be/VfKin1n_YaA?feature=shared
You raised a good point about drums vs other samples - definitely I am mostly browsing samples for electronic drums for electronic music. Everything else I usually make myself with synths, guitar, etc.
For example a use case might be I want to replace a snare on a track, so I want to find other samples that sound similar-ish or maybe I want to try something different like a rimshot instead. Being able to find fast and accurately and audition easily without fuss is essentially what I want - all the other stuff (AI suggestions / galactic maps / creative sequencing) is icing on the cake - good to have but not essential.
I'm honing in on Atlas I think.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4716 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
Some other alternatives:
- Loopcloud / Splice: Not into subscriptions
- Waves Cosmos: Reluctant to touch Waves anymore, but it does look pretty good (damn, don't make me do it, Waves...)
- Samplism: Mac only
- Resonic: Looks more geared for post-production but I'll look into it more
- Loopcloud / Splice: Not into subscriptions
- Waves Cosmos: Reluctant to touch Waves anymore, but it does look pretty good (damn, don't make me do it, Waves...)
- Samplism: Mac only
- Resonic: Looks more geared for post-production but I'll look into it more
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- KVRian
- 1462 posts since 27 Apr, 2012
+1 Atlas. Great dev, cross platform (even Linux native!), multiple maps, list view if you want it, search in subfolders. Drum and drum-adjacent samples only, no loops or pitch info. It also has a standalone app. I strictly use it as a librarian so I couldn't tell you how good the sequencer is.
Cosmos is great in theory but last time I tried it it was absolutely broken. It kept forgetting entire folders worth of samples and automatically rescanning them, which was a multi-hour endeavor because the scanning is so slow compared to Atlas or XO. I wasted way too much time trying to get it to work and eventually gave up.
If you actually manage to get your samples scanned in, the categorization is pretty comprehensive and does work very well. Unlike Atlas and XO, samples get various tags (vs. a single type tag - pitch, length, genre, brightness, distortion etc.) that describe them, somewhat similar to the ADSR one. It has a map for drum samples and bass/other oneshots (sortable by sample type like the competitors plus Brightness and a couple other options) but also allows you to search and filter loops (drum and non-drum) in a list view as well.
The main functionality downside for me is that you can't search within subfolders at all, not even by entering folder names in the text search. You can however tie multiple root folders together and enable/disable them together.
Due to the scanning issues it was unusable, which is unfortunate because it's both cheap and an excellent sample librarian (almost all the advantages of both ADSR and XO/Atlas and even more - if it were to actually work!). I refuse to use Waves anymore so I have no idea if they've fixed it. Honestly I doubt it.
XO, at least as of when I had it a few years ago, was limited to a single map. Like Atlas, Drum and drum-adjacent samples only, no loops. It may?? include pitch and length filters for drum oneshots but I don't remember 100%. Text searches operate on folder names as well as file names but you cannot explicitly limit the map to a specific subfolder of one of the folders you've added (if I remember correctly, you CAN add multiple root folders and check or uncheck those to show or hide the samples in the map). Unlike Atlas you can hold down the left mouse and sweep over a bunch samples on the map quickly to preview them which is a nice workflow thing. In Atlas you have to enable preview mode and then just sweeping the mouse without holding a button gets you similar behavior but it's not as nice IMO.
edit: Just read the Waves release notes and supposedly they've improved Cosmos scan times.
edit edit RE:Cosmos: I was using this on Windows 10. Possibly it's better on another OS.
Cosmos is great in theory but last time I tried it it was absolutely broken. It kept forgetting entire folders worth of samples and automatically rescanning them, which was a multi-hour endeavor because the scanning is so slow compared to Atlas or XO. I wasted way too much time trying to get it to work and eventually gave up.
If you actually manage to get your samples scanned in, the categorization is pretty comprehensive and does work very well. Unlike Atlas and XO, samples get various tags (vs. a single type tag - pitch, length, genre, brightness, distortion etc.) that describe them, somewhat similar to the ADSR one. It has a map for drum samples and bass/other oneshots (sortable by sample type like the competitors plus Brightness and a couple other options) but also allows you to search and filter loops (drum and non-drum) in a list view as well.
The main functionality downside for me is that you can't search within subfolders at all, not even by entering folder names in the text search. You can however tie multiple root folders together and enable/disable them together.
Due to the scanning issues it was unusable, which is unfortunate because it's both cheap and an excellent sample librarian (almost all the advantages of both ADSR and XO/Atlas and even more - if it were to actually work!). I refuse to use Waves anymore so I have no idea if they've fixed it. Honestly I doubt it.
XO, at least as of when I had it a few years ago, was limited to a single map. Like Atlas, Drum and drum-adjacent samples only, no loops. It may?? include pitch and length filters for drum oneshots but I don't remember 100%. Text searches operate on folder names as well as file names but you cannot explicitly limit the map to a specific subfolder of one of the folders you've added (if I remember correctly, you CAN add multiple root folders and check or uncheck those to show or hide the samples in the map). Unlike Atlas you can hold down the left mouse and sweep over a bunch samples on the map quickly to preview them which is a nice workflow thing. In Atlas you have to enable preview mode and then just sweeping the mouse without holding a button gets you similar behavior but it's not as nice IMO.
edit: Just read the Waves release notes and supposedly they've improved Cosmos scan times.
edit edit RE:Cosmos: I was using this on Windows 10. Possibly it's better on another OS.
Last edited by Greenstorm33 on Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
Softsynth addict and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4716 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
Been watching XO vs Atlas videos and reading forums.Greenstorm33 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:19 am +1 Atlas. Great dev, cross platform (even Linux native!), multiple maps, list view if you want it, search in subfolders. Drum and drum-adjacent samples only. It also has a standalone app. I strictly use it as a librarian so I couldn't tell you how good the sequencer is.
Cosmos is great in theory but last time I tried it it was absolutely broken. It kept forgetting entire folders worth of samples and automatically rescanning them, which was a multi-hour endeavor because the scanning is so slow compared to Atlas or XO. I wasted way too much time trying to get it to work and eventually gave up. If you actually manage to get your samples scanned in, the categorization is pretty comprehensive and does work very well. Unlike Atlas and XO, samples get various tags (vs. a single Type tag) that describe them, somewhat similar to the ADSR one. It has a map for drum samples and bass/other oneshots (sortable by sample type like the competitors plus Brightness and a couple other options) but also allows you to search and filter loops (drum and non-drum) in a list view as well. Unfortunately due to the scanning issues it was unusable. I refuse to use Waves anymore so I have no idea if they've fixed it. Honestly I doubt it.
XO, at least as of when I had it a few years ago, was limited to a single map. Text searches operate on folder names as well as file names but you cannot explicitly limit the map to a specific subfolder of one of the folders you've added (if I remember correctly, you CAN add multiple root folders and check or uncheck those to show or hide the samples in the map). Unlike Atlas you can hold down the left mouse and sweep over a bunch samples on the map quickly to preview them which is a nice workflow thing. In Atlas you have to enable preview mode and then just sweeping the mouse without holding a button gets you similar behavior but it's not as nice IMO.
edit: Just read the Waves release notes and supposedly they've improved Cosmos scan times.
edit edit RE:Cosmos: I was using this on Windows 10. Possibly it's better on another OS.
Another thing is XLN don't really update their software much, but Atlas seems to be continually developed - so there's a chance it will eventually also have all the best unique stuff from XO in future.
Also I think the multiple maps of Atlas vs just one 'everything' map in XO... is a big deal for me and something I will make use of, like having an entire individual map just for snares & claps, or even bass one-shots.
I found this too as an alternative to ADSR:
https://www.soundparticles.com/products/explorer
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- KVRian
- 1462 posts since 27 Apr, 2012
Yeah, big fan of the Atlas dev. Still updating and very responsive if you have a question. I too like the multiple maps. You can kind of fake the functionality in XO by toggling your root folders but it's not the same. Atlas will do at least most bass oneshots (they go in as "other"), but it is definitely intended primarily for drum oneshots. Same for XO (you may have to decrease the "drumminess" slider to get them if I remember right).
Softsynth addict and electronic music enthusiast.
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."
"Destruction is the work of an afternoon. Creation is the work of a lifetime."
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- KVRian
- 558 posts since 13 Jul, 2006
Sononym is also a good, more general sample manager. But it doesn't have visual map.
On the other hand, it has good search and similarity search.
Also big fan of the Atlas dev. He's very responsive and continually working to update Atlas.
The web page of Atlas may not indicate that. Also the changelog doesn't show newest updates on top and no dates. But the last release was just a few weeks ago and I heard from the dev that there's more in the pipeline that could be released soon.
On the other hand, it has good search and similarity search.
Also big fan of the Atlas dev. He's very responsive and continually working to update Atlas.
The web page of Atlas may not indicate that. Also the changelog doesn't show newest updates on top and no dates. But the last release was just a few weeks ago and I heard from the dev that there's more in the pipeline that could be released soon.
Find my (music) related software projects here: github.com/Fannon
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- KVRian
- 969 posts since 27 Jun, 2011
Sononym by a huge margin. It's the only true sample manager IMO. XO and Atlas are in a sense 'sample discovery' tools, but the map especially is just a gamification of the process.
The map is fun to use, but it's only as good as the grouping itself but the grouping is wrong as often as it is right. Sure, in the sheer mass of kick drums or snares, what does it matter if 20 or 30 or 100 of them are misplaced? But from a functionality standpoint it's not working correctly and like a library where the books are not in the correct category, for all practical matters these samples are lost.
I find XO is still significantly better at categorizing than Atlas, but they both look like they do a much better job than they're actually doing (especially, sadly, Atlas). From a workflow perspective that doesn't matter (a snare is a snare), but you're basically fooling yourself and culling a ton of your samples without knowing it.
Sononym not only processes all sorts of samples and loops in a usable fashion (not just drums), it also allows almost immediate filtering by text, direct similarity search (XO has this too, but Atlas just cycles through samples in the same general category), easy reduction by folders and various metadata and analysis aspects (noisiness, harmonicity and you can use to search and filter. It's all just right there. IMO it's the only serious option, but XO and Atlas are fun, and there's nothing wrong with that either.
The map is fun to use, but it's only as good as the grouping itself but the grouping is wrong as often as it is right. Sure, in the sheer mass of kick drums or snares, what does it matter if 20 or 30 or 100 of them are misplaced? But from a functionality standpoint it's not working correctly and like a library where the books are not in the correct category, for all practical matters these samples are lost.
I find XO is still significantly better at categorizing than Atlas, but they both look like they do a much better job than they're actually doing (especially, sadly, Atlas). From a workflow perspective that doesn't matter (a snare is a snare), but you're basically fooling yourself and culling a ton of your samples without knowing it.
Sononym not only processes all sorts of samples and loops in a usable fashion (not just drums), it also allows almost immediate filtering by text, direct similarity search (XO has this too, but Atlas just cycles through samples in the same general category), easy reduction by folders and various metadata and analysis aspects (noisiness, harmonicity and you can use to search and filter. It's all just right there. IMO it's the only serious option, but XO and Atlas are fun, and there's nothing wrong with that either.
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- KVRist
- 92 posts since 26 Jul, 2023 from France
Thank you for discovering this! I'm going to try it out.MogwaiBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:12 amI found this too as an alternative to ADSR:
https://www.soundparticles.com/products/explorer
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- KVRian
- 969 posts since 27 Jun, 2011
It doesn't auto-categorize thought, right? I remember looking into it a while back.Monsieur_FyP wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:42 amThank you for discovering this! I'm going to try it out.MogwaiBoy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:12 amI found this too as an alternative to ADSR:
https://www.soundparticles.com/products/explorer
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- KVRian
- 558 posts since 13 Jul, 2006
Fully agree with everything you posted. I also have those 3 and agree with your conclusions. I hope that Atlas 2 gets more improved in sample detection or how it layouts it on a grid.
From substance, Atlas 2 is more capable than XO and also much more actively developed.
But I also had the feeling that the sample categorization and layouting of XO works better.
Find my (music) related software projects here: github.com/Fannon
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- KVRian
- 1093 posts since 9 Apr, 2012
The filter options are top notch (General, Categories, File Info, Loudness, Note/Frequency, BPM/Tempo, Brightness, Harmonicity and Noisiness). Especially filtering the length (under the File Info tab) of a sample is such a handy feature if you are looking for a specific sound (no more 5 seconds crash cymbals or 808 kick drums if you only looking for some short sounds).wasi wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:04 am Sononym not only processes all sorts of samples and loops in a usable fashion (not just drums), it also allows almost immediate filtering by text, direct similarity search (XO has this too, but Atlas just cycles through samples in the same general category), easy reduction by folders and various metadata and analysis aspects (noisiness, harmonicity and you can use to search and filter. It's all just right there. IMO it's the only serious option, but XO and Atlas are fun, and there's nothing wrong with that either.
Underground Music Production: Sound Design, Machine Funk, High Tech Soul
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- KVRian
- 616 posts since 20 Jun, 2010
dumb question: how is your workflow with those sample managers? If you categorize samples with the standalone app wouldn't the sampler plugin/sequencer in your DAW be required to be compatible with the category/tagging system?
