FR: different Live Sync Modes for scene playback and sequence recording
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 332 posts since 26 Jul, 2012
for sequence live recording during scene playback i have to select "Composer" to get a synchron live recording result, but for continues playback start i want to have selected "Start" and 1 Bar.
it would be easier if this could selected in Live Sync Mode for Recording and Playback, or Scene sequence recording will start always in "Composer" Live Sync Mode if a Scene is in playback mode.
it would be easier if this could selected in Live Sync Mode for Recording and Playback, or Scene sequence recording will start always in "Composer" Live Sync Mode if a Scene is in playback mode.
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
Why would you need that? Please explain it from your musical workflow pov, thus pls elaborate on what you want to do musically.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 332 posts since 26 Jul, 2012
i want to record new sequences for a scene, while sequences which was recorded before are now playing.
for example:
first i have to record a drum sequence, after recorded drum sequence was finished and playing , now i want to record a bass sequence for this scene and so on.
now, if i want to do that i have to change Live Sync Mode to "Composer" to get a synchron recording result, if i do not change it, recording creates always a empty bar before recording start, although recording was started directly after record button was pressed.
for finsihed scenes playback i prefer "Start" with "1 Bar" mode to switch to another scene.
Now i have always to change it for scenes playback from "Composer" to "Start".
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
That sure is an obvious and supported use case. Many users will often play this way.Hermu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:42 pm i want to record new sequences for a scene, while sequences which was recorded before are now playing. for example: first i have to record a drum sequence, after recorded drum sequence was finished and playing , now i want to record a bass sequence for this scene and so on.
I just doublechecked that workflow and it works fine as expected here.
I can't repeat this. Well, to be more precise: If i record my first note a bit too early and it gets quantized to the last 16th of the previous bar, in that case there indeed is that extra first bar, but that's logical as MuLab cannot know that first note was a mistake. I'll have to correct that mistake myself by editing.now, if i want to do that i have to change Live Sync Mode to "Composer" to get a synchron recording result, if i do not change it, recording creates always a empty bar before recording start, although recording was started directly after record button was pressed.
Please note that sync mode "Composer" means that the Composer's sync mode is used. The composer's sync mode is defined via Composer options (options at the right of transport) -> Live Sync Mode. In fact you have the exact same choices there as for Part Sync Mode, Scene Sync Mode and Live Matrix Sync Mode. It's all about the same but with a hierarchical structure:for finsihed scenes playback i prefer "Start" with "1 Bar" mode to switch to another scene.
Now i have always to change it for scenes playback from "Composer" to "Start".
If Part Sync Mode is set to Scene then Scene Sync Mode is used.
If Scene Sync Mode is set to Live Matrix then Live Matrix Sync Mode is used.
If Live Matrix Sync Mode is set to Composer then Composer Sync Mode is used.
Does this clarify things?
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 332 posts since 26 Jul, 2012
thanks for your detailed answer and you´re right, different Live Sync modes can not solve unsynchron live recording results.mutools wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:26 pmThat sure is an obvious and supported use case. Many users will often play this way.Hermu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:42 pm i want to record new sequences for a scene, while sequences which was recorded before are now playing. for example: first i have to record a drum sequence, after recorded drum sequence was finished and playing , now i want to record a bass sequence for this scene and so on.
I just doublechecked that workflow and it works fine as expected here.I can't repeat this. Well, to be more precise: If i record my first note a bit too early and it gets quantized to the last 16th of the previous bar, in that case there indeed is that extra first bar, but that's logical as MuLab cannot know that first note was a mistake. I'll have to correct that mistake myself by editing.now, if i want to do that i have to change Live Sync Mode to "Composer" to get a synchron recording result, if i do not change it, recording creates always a empty bar before recording start, although recording was started directly after record button was pressed.Please note that sync mode "Composer" means that the Composer's sync mode is used. The composer's sync mode is defined via Composer options (options at the right of transport) -> Live Sync Mode. In fact you have the exact same choices there as for Part Sync Mode, Scene Sync Mode and Live Matrix Sync Mode. It's all about the same but with a hierarchical structure:for finsihed scenes playback i prefer "Start" with "1 Bar" mode to switch to another scene.
Now i have always to change it for scenes playback from "Composer" to "Start".
If Part Sync Mode is set to Scene then Scene Sync Mode is used.
If Scene Sync Mode is set to Live Matrix then Live Matrix Sync Mode is used.
If Live Matrix Sync Mode is set to Composer then Composer Sync Mode is used.
Does this clarify things?
yes, it´s hard to press record and hit the first note exactly in the same time, but recording was played in time with playback, only the recording result is out of time.
but if recording would only record as it is would fix this issue.
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
You can also press record and wait a loop and only record then. That will give the same result.
Maybe you played just a little bit too early but with Auto Quantize on it shifted to a previous grid?but recording was played in time with playback, only the recording result is out of time.
but if recording would only record as it is would fix this issue.
Could that have been the cause?
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 332 posts since 26 Jul, 2012
no, i don´t use Auto Quantize.mutools wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:24 amYou can also press record and wait a loop and only record then. That will give the same result.Maybe you played just a little bit too early but with Auto Quantize on it shifted to a previous grid?but recording was played in time with playback, only the recording result is out of time.
but if recording would only record as it is would fix this issue.
Could that have been the cause?
i have this problem only by recording in Live Play Matrix, most of my recording starts always one beat shifted to right and this is a long time before my recording playback will start.
time line recording during scene playback works nearly perfect and than i have to copy this sequence to live play matrix ...
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
What's the samplerate and output latency of the audio engine?
You can find these values by right-click on the cpu meter -> Audio Engine Stats.
You can find these values by right-click on the cpu meter -> Audio Engine Stats.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 332 posts since 26 Jul, 2012
now i have found the reason for the delayed recording issue.
the problem is found in the Live Sync settings.
as i wrote in my first post, i want to set up "Start" und "1 Bar" for Playback, but this setting has also influence to recording result.
if Live Sync "Start" and "Instant" was set, recording result starts on beginning.
if Live Sync "Start" and "1 Beat" was set, recording result starts after 1 Beat and so on.
if Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar" was set, recording result starts after 1 Bar and so on.
workaround for me:
recording - set Live Sync "Start" and "Instant"
playback - set Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar"
the problem is found in the Live Sync settings.
as i wrote in my first post, i want to set up "Start" und "1 Bar" for Playback, but this setting has also influence to recording result.
if Live Sync "Start" and "Instant" was set, recording result starts on beginning.
if Live Sync "Start" and "1 Beat" was set, recording result starts after 1 Beat and so on.
if Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar" was set, recording result starts after 1 Bar and so on.
workaround for me:
recording - set Live Sync "Start" and "Instant"
playback - set Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar"
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
The sync mode indeed plays a roll in defining the loop length for the new recording: The loop start is quantized to the previous sync grid, the loop end to the next sync grid. Now if you have set the recording grid to off thus no event quantization at all, and your first event is just before the grid then the loop start for the new sequence will be rounded to the previous sync grid and hence you'll get some empty space before your first event. If you don't want that try using a quantization grid for the recorded events.
-
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 332 posts since 26 Jul, 2012
for me, live recording should be easy logical to understand and practice, but it´s not.
it´s not logical for me to understand, why a playback synchronisation for switching to another scene, should also create a recording delay in the same unswitched scene, because these are two different things. in ableton live i never had a problem with live recordings and it´s logical and easy to use.
anyway, i want to record only to actual playing scene and the workaround for me in MuLab 9:
recording - set Live Sync "Start" and "Instant"
playback - set Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar"
it´s not logical for me to understand, why a playback synchronisation for switching to another scene, should also create a recording delay in the same unswitched scene, because these are two different things. in ableton live i never had a problem with live recordings and it´s logical and easy to use.
anyway, i want to record only to actual playing scene and the workaround for me in MuLab 9:
recording - set Live Sync "Start" and "Instant"
playback - set Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar"
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
To me this sounds like you do want the very first event(s) to be quantized anyway so to avoid the empty time due to rounding to the sync length. That makes sense, musically. In the next M9.0.34 update when recording events into the Live Matrix and there is no recording quantization then if the very first recorded event(s) are just before a beat (within 1/32th of the next beat) then these events are quantized to that next beat anyway. That will avoid the complication you're encountering and i'm confident this also makes musical sense to 99% of the users.
- KVRAF
- 12752 posts since 24 Jun, 2008 from Europe
It sounded like you agreed on the practical solution, and that solution is implemented in M9.0.34.
So i'd appreciate if you would elaborate on what's still not ok for you.
So i'd appreciate if you would elaborate on what's still not ok for you.