SurferEQ 2

[Robert Randolph]

yeah of course.. it's a bummer though.. you think you're good to go and no surprises and then this drops outta nowhere when a new AWESOME looking update is released. it kinda stings ay?

it makes the plug in you have a dead end of sorts. "better sell it now before it's worth nothing or becomes incompatible" is what some will think. the features you hoped you'd get are only available with a big compromise/inconvenience for some people.

shrug.

Why would you sell it or whatever? The thing you purchased still works.

I really don't understand what you guys do in the real world when a company releases a new version of your toaster, refrigerator, plates, car, tiling etc... You bought the stuff to serve a purpose. Use it.

edit: Unless you purchased it so you can have the cool new shiny thing... in which case you now don't. Then it'd make sense to be upset.

you're being cute but it's not very cute.. c'mon.. you buy a thing.. you use it a lot.. you think "i wish it did this too.." then they come out w/an update and it does that and more and you can have it for $29 update fee buuuuutttt.. you have to buy an iLok and stick a dongle in your computer. it's a bummer.

so, sure.. the thing you originally bought and are excited about and use regularly still works just great of course.. but maybe your next OS update breaks it.. and then that's the end of it unless you buy a dongle and get the update. or you cut your losses and sell it now and look for another tool to do the same job.

software is not a toaster or refrigerator. when i move to a new place i don't have to worry (yet) about my toaster being compatible with my new house.

You don't have to update your OS. Just use your computer as/is if it works and you're doing work with it.

And you're right, software isn't a toaster. It's far more convenient. You likely got a lot of free updates for SurferEQ and the OS you're running, and you didn't have to replace a thing or pay a dime.

[dayjob]

yeah of course.. it's a bummer though.. you think you're good to go and no surprises and then this drops outta nowhere when a new AWESOME looking update is released. it kinda stings ay?

it makes the plug in you have a dead end of sorts. "better sell it now before it's worth nothing or becomes incompatible" is what some will think. the features you hoped you'd get are only available with a big compromise/inconvenience for some people.

shrug.

Why would you sell it or whatever? The thing you purchased still works.

I really don't understand what you guys do in the real world when a company releases a new version of your toaster, refrigerator, plates, car, tiling etc... You bought the stuff to serve a purpose. Use it.

edit: Unless you purchased it so you can have the cool new shiny thing... in which case you now don't. Then it'd make sense to be upset.

you're being cute but it's not very cute.. c'mon.. you buy a thing.. you use it a lot.. you think "i wish it did this too.." then they come out w/an update and it does that and more and you can have it for $29 update fee buuuuutttt.. you have to buy an iLok and stick a dongle in your computer. it's a bummer.

so, sure.. the thing you originally bought and are excited about and use regularly still works just great of course.. but maybe your next OS update breaks it.. and then that's the end of it unless you buy a dongle and get the update. or you cut your losses and sell it now and look for another tool to do the same job.

software is not a toaster or refrigerator. when i move to a new place i don't have to worry (yet) about my toaster being compatible with my new house.

You don't have to update your OS. Just use your computer as/is if it works and you're doing work with it.

And you're right, software isn't a toaster. It's far more convenient. You likely got a lot of free updates for SurferEQ and the OS you're running, and you didn't have to replace a thing.

missing the point but...

currently, no, you don't have to update your OS.. but what i said was at some point an OS update may break it and unless they do an update for the earlier version for compatibility then it may not work.. at some point..

but yeah for now and for probably quite a while it should work fine.

sour grapes perhaps. i don't want to buy a dongle. i'm fine w/the iLok licenser. so much for surferEQ2

shrug

[plexuss]

Am I missing something ?

They wrote "ADDED", not "switched to"...

Exactly. That's why I bought the upgrade. After the install, I authed the key they sent with iLok and the only option was to a USB key. so I emailed them and they confirmed this and refunded me. they also told me they may switch their other plugins to iLok USB only. So if you don't use iLok USB and don't plan to, you just got screwed.

If you DO use iLok, you are happy that they changed though.

Like me.

But consider this: Consider the customers that bought into Sound Radix BECAUSE the don't use dongles and don't plan to - there are some of those (I am one). I have 3 of their plugins and use them. In the context of customers as described, with this update, Sound Radix has a) Prevented customers from being able to use the update, b) Significantly devalued SurferEQ 1, c) devalues their other plugins because now what, they might switch those to iLok USB too?

Sure, make a change. But how about warning users that this coming down the pipe. And how about accurately advertising the update as not "ADDED...." but "REPLACED WITH..." and say explicitly "Thew new version requires an iLok USB" - there is nothing on the product pages about this and I also looked through the manual to check - nothing. so i bought it. and then had to ask for a refund - wasting my time.

Why is this an issue? Trust. These aren't just toys - they are tools and they cost a fair amount of money. Part of what I expect is reliability to maintain a status quo so that I rely on these tools. In one fell swoop they now put this imposition on us non-iLok users. There was no warning.

For you iLok USB users, great! Wow. that's awesome. for us non-USB users... we just got a dongle shoved up our ass by Sound Radix.

What you purchased still works, doesn't it?

There's no requirement to update or use iLok.

NO! thats the point. I bought the upgrade and couldnt use it because it requires a USB dongle now. Yes! They refunded me. But now I cant upgrade and they may impose iLok USB on their other products. or maybe not or maybr enable soft auth. they presented all these possibilities to me in email.

[kiezum]

You know what's also a bummer? Working for months to produce an awesome new update, then finding its cracked days later.

I think it's a pity that ilok is necessary, but I'll not blame any developer that chooses to protect their work with it.

I know protection is a necessary evil. But the customers who purchased the product are 'punished' for something they didn't do.

Last month I updated all my PC's to Windows 10. And all problems that occured were software protection related. Most software developers respond quick and friendly, but it costs me so much additional time I could have spend making music (and making money).

Changing protection is even worse. Rob Papen was protected by a simple serial (one of the reasons I bought his software) and now it's call/response protection. I wasn't happy about that. And it's one of the developers I had to contact after the Windows 10 update.

[IIRs]

Paying customers are always punished for the cracked versions. Either you pay more to subsidise the freeloaders, or you go without entirely because it wasn't worth the developers effort to make the plug in the first place. Or you have to stick a little dongle in your computer.

The devs are not obliged to make the software, or to sell it to you. They are certainly not obliged to give it away for free to every free loader that wants a copy.

If you want to moan about ilok, moan about the crackers, and the people that would rather download dodgy versions than buy a licence, and blame those people rather than the clever chaps that make the plugs.

By all means stop being a customer of theirs, that's your right. But presumedly they have calculated that sales lost to anti ilok hard liners will not outweigh sales made to people who would rather steal it if they could. So let's stop moaning and talk about the new features instead?

[murnau]

Paying customers are always punished for the cracked versions. Either you pay more to subsidise the freeloaders, or you go without entirely because it wasn't worth the developers effort to make the plug in the first place. Or you have to stick a little dongle in your computer.

The devs are not obliged to make the software, or to sell it to you. They are certainly not obliged to give it away for free to every free loader that wants a copy.

If you want to moan about ilok, moan about the crackers, and the people that would rather download dodgy versions than buy a licence, and blame those people rather than the clever chaps that make the plugs.

By all means stop being a customer of theirs, that's your right. But presumedly they have calculated that sales lost to anti ilok hard liners will not outweigh sales made to people who would rather steal it if they could. So let's stop moaning and talk about the new features instead?

Well said!

[kiezum]

Paying customers are always punished for the cracked versions. Either you pay more to subsidise the freeloaders, or you go without entirely because it wasn't worth the developers effort to make the plug in the first place. Or you have to stick a little dongle in your computer.

In the end I think that a company will profit more when customers are happy with their products. Dongles and copy protection are not the only solutions to the 'freeloaders' problems.

[Robert Randolph]

Paying customers are always punished for the cracked versions. Either you pay more to subsidise the freeloaders, or you go without entirely because it wasn't worth the developers effort to make the plug in the first place. Or you have to stick a little dongle in your computer.

In the end I think that a company will profit more when customers are happy with their products. Dongles and copy protection are not the only solutions to the 'freeloaders' problems.

You could make a lot of money if you solved the 'freeloader problem' without copy protection.

A developer can ignore pirates for sure, but that doesn't solve the problem.

[plexuss]

Is there any actual real data on how much of a problem, if any, it is. I am not talking about anecdotal evidence or opinions but real data and a good study on the effects (or not) of "piracy". would a person who uses cracked software buy it if the crack wasnt available and to what degree.

[IIRs]

If a developer sees steady sales of a plug until it appears on file sharing sites, and then a steep dip in sales afterwards, does that count as real data? Would you blame that developer for taking counter measures with his/her next release?

I'm not saying that happened with SEQ1, I have no idea. But I know it's happened to other developers and other plugs.

Of course not everyone that downloads the crack would otherwise have bought a licence. But certainly some of them would. There are many documented cases of successful commercial studios / musicians using cracked plugs.

Try thinking about it from the opposite perspective: if audio plugin developers weren't ripped off by freeloaders all the time, imagine how many more talented devs would be working in the industry, and how much better software could be available to us.

[kiezum]

Of course not everyone that downloads the crack would otherwise have bought a licence. But certainly some of them would. There are many documented cases of successful commercial studios / musicians using cracked plugs.

Producers/musicians who don't pay for the software they make money with... that's a shame!

Well developers could always make extremely difficult software. And then charge for support and instructions

[kiezum]

But software protection aside... Is this a useful EQ when you have a good dynamic EQ? And how good is the pitchtracking?

[dayjob]

i emailed sound raddix about the iLok question. here's the reply:

Thank you for your email. To use SurferEQ 2, an iLok is required. We've selected to opt-out of hard-drive authorization due to a relatively high failure rate of drives and motherboards which result in painful loss of licenses. Also, too many folks forget to deactivate their licenses before upgrading their machine. And if it's time to upgrade your system or replace your drive, installing SurferEQ 2 is as simple as running the installer and plugging the key and you're done. No internet connection or new authorization is required.

You get two activations with your SurferEQ 2 license! And you can use them simultaneously to activate two keys for your desktop and laptop.

We currently have no immediate plans to switch our other plug-ins to iLok.

i get their point but in recent ilok issue i had when my logic board in my laptop died the developers just revoked those licenses and issued new ones. no problem.

i get that it can be a PITA though so perhaps it makes for less work for them dealing w/the license issues.. i guess it's worth it for them to switch to iLok. maybe this one plug in is an experiment to see how it goes for them.

[plexuss]

i emailed sound raddix about the iLok question. here's the reply:

Thank you for your email. To use SurferEQ 2, an iLok is required. We've selected to opt-out of hard-drive authorization due to a relatively high failure rate of drives and motherboards which result in painful loss of licenses. Also, too many folks forget to deactivate their licenses before upgrading their machine. And if it's time to upgrade your system or replace your drive, installing SurferEQ 2 is as simple as running the installer and plugging the key and you're done. No internet connection or new authorization is required.

You get two activations with your SurferEQ 2 license! And you can use them simultaneously to activate two keys for your desktop and laptop.

We currently have no immediate plans to switch our other plug-ins to iLok.

i get their point but in recent ilok issue i had when my logic board in my laptop died the developers just revoked those licenses and issued new ones. no problem.

i get that it can be a PITA though so perhaps it makes for less work for them dealing w/the license issues.. i guess it's worth it for them to switch to iLok. maybe this one plug in is an experiment to see how it goes for them.

And it's incorrect. There is ultimately no loss of license. I had this happen to me with a number of iLok soft-authorizations. All I had to do was contact the vendors and ask to have the license re-set. This was done with out hassle by all the vendors involved. It appears part of the PACE process and was of no extra cost.

The issue for me isn't specifically the implications of iLok USB. Rather it's locking me out as a current customer - unless I adopt the iLok USB dongle then I can no longer use Sound Radix's current products. My use-case is such that I much prefer to use soft-auth and not dongles. and I resent being forced into having to use them. To me its a breach of trust that has an impact on my work.

[Robert Randolph]

Guys, 2.0.1 is out and it has disk-based authorization now.