Behringer Analog Synth

[Daags]

Clavia Nord Lead 4: € 1.799
Clavia Nord Lead 4 Rack: € 1.169

= € 600 = ~33%

Clavia ? Seriously ? .... making such comparisons you either don't know what you're talking about, or you are being disingenuous ... I truck with neither.

[etherdesign]

You're seriously complaining about a 12 voice desktop analog synth for only $900? Name another 12 voice analog below a grand? You're lucky they have a keyboard version for a grand when 12 voice analogs normally go for double/triple that price. I believe Behringer has given us enough innovation with that price.

My comment was about the desktop's price, not the keyboard.
And there's no innovation in cutting down production costs and getting your profit from extra sales instead. Any Behringer user knows their business model - and it's abviously working.

Behringer usually covers all possible niches so I'm fairly sure they will (eventually) come up with a full featured cheap mono. They've set the lowest bar price wise for polys, now it's time to take on Korg in the lower price range battlefield. I'd like to see them succeed in producing an equally cool "Monologue" for even less money, or getting more bells and whistles for the same ammount (arp/onboard effects/etc). But for the moment, Korg's Mono is king.

PS: just because other companies charge premium for "analog" polys, doesn't necessarily means it's that expensive to put together those synths.

It is expensive to build those synths, because you need exactly Tx times the components where T is the number of voices, oscillators, filters, envelopes, it gets very expensive very quickly. Behringer has set the bar and I very much doubt there will ever be a cheaper analogue poly. As for the Monologue, it's $300 WITH KEYS. That's insane, and I would be highly dubious of lesser priced competitors since they'd most certainly be cutting corners somewhere.

[idfpower]

Behringer has set the bar and I very much doubt there will ever be a cheaper analogue poly. As for the Monologue, it's $300 WITH KEYS. That's insane, and I would be highly dubious of lesser priced competitors since they'd most certainly be cutting corners somewhere.

Yeah, they've prolly hit the absolute rock bottom price for a 12 voice poly. Their whole point was to prove it can be done for less money, so kudos for that.

But when it comes to a mono... I'm fairly sure they can make it cheaper - let's say...around $200.
Monologue seems pretty well featured, but lacks effects (and arp); it was designed with the bedroom producer in mind that uses vst effects, but on the other hand runs on batteries, and in the middle of the parck or whatever, a couple of onboard effects would make the difference. I mean even the Volcas come with a delay on...

The way I see it, sooner or later Behringer will have to release a mono in order to keep their customers (if buyers want something that you don't offer, they will go to the competition and give them their money instead). So no matter how many other brand monos already are on the market, they will need to come up with their own version (and a drum machine as well). You can bet that unit will also be available at the lowest possible price - it's just Behringer's business model.

On a different note, 300 - 400 $ is the average salary around these parts. So for some ppl, price alone is the determining factor. There's a reason why there's such a fierce competition in the "up to $ 300" market segment. Yes, many ppl can afford to spend thousands on music gear every year worldwide, but there are far many more that would shell out just a couple hundred. Catering to them is winning the customers your competition can't because they simply can't lower their prices enough.

[bronxsound]

^ do you really think that companies like korg rely their price fixings on countries where salaries are on average are 300-400 bucks?

the real target is the location where people can easily spend 300-400 bucks hence it happens.

[idfpower]

^ do you really think that companies like korg rely their price fixings on countries where salaries are on average are 300-400 bucks?

My point was: when one's income is not that big, price becomes the main factor; everything else comes second.

But to answer your question: IMO it would be stupid business wise not to take into consideration markets with smaller average incomes. Throughout these years Korg's policy was to cater to all price ranges - hence releasing of Trons, Volcas, Kaoss, etc. Btw, where do you think Behringer got the money to buy Midas, TC Electronics and all their other companies from? Was is maybe from selling for many years cheaper gear than the other companies? Prosumer gear sells very well. Not many starting bedroom producers shelling out $ 5K for pro gear from the start outhere (for ex) - but plenty of ppl running Behringer gear simply because it's the cheapest option they can afford. Why do you think DM12 would prolly be a massive hit for Behringer? Just because it's a 12 voice poly, or maybe because it's a feature loaded 12 voice poly under $ 1K? Would they sell truckloads with a 2 - 3 - 4K price tag? Yeah, price is damn important - IMO.

[chk071]

Behringer will charge what they can charge, and what the market offers. They surely won't be concentrating on countries which won't contribute to many sales. IMO, the suggested prices are a total bargain for what this offers. If this was a Moog, it would easily cost 3.000 - 4.000 €. One has to keep in mind though what the name "Behringer" stood for so far though. They're not Moog, that's for sure. And the build quality of this thing will be rather Behringer than Moog too, otherwise they'd have to charge more.

[zerocrossing]

They are charging what they can, too many people saying "This should be 2k" over and over again at GS, it just opened the door for Behringer to sell at this price and still be "Heroes" to those muppets, problem is, most of the people who keep screaming how amazing it all is, probably can't afford it, wont buy it, and anybody who does buy it before it is reduced down to £500 (Yes it will, go look at all Behringer products) is a mugg

Yeah, the more I lurk around GS, the more I'm convinced it's the worst source for market polls I'm a bit curious how many of those guys will actually end up buying a DM12... Minilogue was everyone's darling and a real miracle in the making, but just a couple of weeks later, it got turned into a "clicky POS"... I'm sure they'll manage to discover some "critical flaws" as soon as DM12 hits the shelves They've already switched to the desktop version before the 1st DM keyboard left the factory so

IMO DM12 sounds very, very good. Absolutely impressive, considering it's the company's first. To do it right, and for that price... just wow. And prolly the other brands will have to reconsider their approach (at least price wise). BUT... a grand is still a grand. In today's world filled with tons and tons of 2nd hand gear and freeware software, I simply don't see myself shelling out that ammount of cash for it. Thing is: I'm not a piano player; keyboard is not my main instrument (heck, I can barely play a handful of chords). So for me all that "12 voice poly for under 1k$" doesn't sound all that life changing, if you know what I mean. So the real question is: would at least 30K keyboard players across the world buy a DM12 in order for the company to make enough cash to keep making synths, or not? And on the other hand, would this be the ideal business model to go by when it comes to such instruments? I mean you can't knock it out of park every single time, in order to assure enough sales to compansate for the rock bottom price, right?

GearSlutz is just anecdotal evidence and I'm sure Uli is smart enough to take what's said there with a few grains of salt. That said, you can't argue that they are not a bunch of very dedicated gear lovers who like to own a lot of gear, so that's not nothing.

$1000 is not nothing, unless you're really wealthy or a professional who relies on good tools and can write them off as business expenses. Considering what you get for that money, I do think it's a bargain. Minilogue? I thought that sounded cheap right off the starting line. I'd buy Legend long before I paid for a Minilogue, but I'd buy a DeepMind 12 for sure... and legend.

Ultimately, cost has little to do with whether or not you can make good sounding music at this point. But, if you have the money, there sure are some nice tools these days.

[skipscada]

Clavia Nord Lead 4: € 1.799
Clavia Nord Lead 4 Rack: € 1.169

= € 600 = ~33%

Clavia ? Seriously ? .... making such comparisons you either don't know what you're talking about, or you are being disingenuous ... I truck with neither.

Just giving a couple of examples (you conveniently forgot about the Korg) that show that the 'norm' you're talking about doesn't seem to be that much of a norm. You are of course free to provide evidence to the contrary. I don't care much either way. I simply wondered if what you said was really the case since I personally would expect a bigger reduction. So I made a couple of checks and shared the results. I suppose you mean it's pointless to compare Clavia's keybed to Behringer's because of feature set, number of keys, expected use, which is fair enough. But which current desktop/keyboard synths do you think are comparable then? Blofeld? Virus? Prophet 6? Telemark? I don't think any of those are close to the 10% you say is the norm. But again, feel free to prove me wrong.

[K-Bee]

Deepmind is now available to buy at Sweetwater for $999 with expected shipping early January.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DeepMind12

Looks like us Europeans have to wait a little more. Nothing on Thomann

[SayersWeb]

Deepmind is now available to buy at Sweetwater for $999 with expected shipping early January.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DeepMind12

Looks like us Europeans have to wait a little more. Nothing on Thomann

On the site it says early 2017, but I can't find any mention of January.

[Daags]

Deepmind is now available to pre-order at Sweetwater for $999 with expected shipping early 2017.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DeepMind12

fixed that for you.

[SayersWeb]

Deepmind is now available to pre-order at Sweetwater for $999 with expected shipping early 2017.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DeepMind12

fixed that for you.

LOL!

[K-Bee]

You're inside my post! Scary (but thanks anyway)
Obviously user reviews are up too

[Scotty]

Speaking of Deepmind reviews SOS review was a weird read. It was as if the reviewer couldn't get over the fact that Behringer could actually produce something of quality. The review was loaded with complimentary bits but there was a negative subtext all through it regardless of the quality of the product. I was put off by the review but keenly interested in Deepmind despite the text. Perhaps Behringer has earned this "raised eyebrow" editorializing but for me Behringer has paid the price for their growing pains years ago.

A friend of mind once mentioned that his ADA8000 both had suffered powersupply failures after 5 years of use. When someone commented that they were junk he disagreed and said that the units were the only outboard gear that was turned on whenever the studio was powered up and he was amazed that they were as reliable as they had been.

I'd like to read a review that just assesses the Deepmind on its merits and leaves the lineage out of the review. There is plenty of that skepticism out there already.

[SayersWeb]

I'd like to read a review that just assesses the Deepmind on its merits and leaves the lineage out of the review. There is plenty of that skepticism out there already.

This isn't reading, but a video review in the spirit that you are looking for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-kfYzn5VvQ