Hardware vs software synths take infinity : topic initial focus Andromeda A6

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Ok I had the chance to play with one of these today at a collector friend's...

So i am asking in all seriousness... if plugins are as good, why have i NEVER heard ANY plugin that can sound as good? In terms of raw tone and emotion.. playing pads on that thing literally had my entire body in shivers, i almost started crying at one point!

So i am going to present this topic a different way..

if this is ok with others, i will point out some andromeda clips on youtube that do it justice, and someone else can point me to vst sounds they think are as good. I want physical proof that full sounds being played can sound as good as this thing. I don't want to do measurement single wave tests or any of that..if the vst doesn't have on board effects, feel free to use a multi fx processing plugin of *your choice* to make things fair (andromeda has a digital fx unit on board). i believe the distortion on it is analog but i could be wrong.

What do you guys think of this idea of comparing actual sounds rather than raw waves? I mean ultimately, they are what make it in our mix.

I'll post a good video to start that should give you some idea, and even so, it's nothing like playing the real thing.. I feel blessed. I guess i could really go to town with chords cause of the 16 poly and that's what did it for me. I am absolutely going to be spending my life trying to find one of these things.

To give you an example, i browsed many omnisphere pad preset videos and they sounded so weak to me in comparison. Yes, omnisphere (V2).

anyway check this superb vid out, put on English captions if you don't understand Japanese. It's one of the best videos out that got me closest to the feeling of my playing today, but again, note, it's not the same as the real thing. However, it was worth every bit of back pain to spend time in front of it today just playing away. Anything we compare it to will be subject to same limitations of you tube, to be fair. Of course if someone here is willing to record a bunch of real audio from the andromeda, i really won't be able to do that for many weeks till i can get out again, then we could do audio file comparisons too.

BTW, i feel exactly the same way about Bowen Solaris, which is 100% digital. I never heard any soft synth that good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49i5zIYSnms

[sqigls]

yeah it's the boss.
i'm not into comparing shit though, it's a waste of time.
This box of capacitors is good for this sound, that one is good for that sound.
Just use whatever you want to make some flipping music, or mass-debate the topic over and over, missing the point.

All of reality is digital, analog is digital, we just don't have high enough resolution algorithm at this moment in time that matches the analog sound. or however the science wordy stuff goes.
on, off, on, on, off
electrical signals interpreted by the brain.

sorry Theo, if you need me, i'll be back under that rock over there.
Good luck in your search, it's a fecking HEAVY beast. Like 30kg or something.
Not for gigging

[ObsoleteAcc99]

yeah it's the boss.
i'm not into comparing shit though, it's a waste of time.
This box of capacitors is good for this sound, that one is good for that sound.
Just use whatever you want to make some flipping music, or mass-debate the topic over and over, missing the point.

All of reality is digital, analog is digital, we just don't have high enough resolution algorithm at this moment in time that matches the analog sound. or however the science wordy stuff goes.
on, off, on, on, off
electrical signals interpreted by the brain.

sorry Theo, if you need me, i'll be back under that rock over there.
Good luck in your search, it's a fecking HEAVY beast. Like 30kg or something.
Not for gigging

I never gig man. I am a home studio guy.

I get the pointless point (hehe)..

BUT.. there are so many people here that for example state diva sounds as good as any hardware.. so i want proof for once.. All i have ever seen are the raw square and sine waves for example being shown, but i want patches that sound as good. THAT's the proof to me. I am not trolling btw, i never intend to do anything like that, so please note everyone reading this, this topic is a genuine as can be. I would LOVE for someone to show me ANY vst, sampled or algorithmic sounding as good, so i can put a sock in my mouth about it all. Really. I love to be proven wrong.

[recursive one]

The general answer to all such threads is as follows: If you badly want a sound of a specific synth, buy this synth. If you just want to make music you are good to go with any state-of-art SW and/or HW synths.

[cocoazenith]

You would be amazed at how much tactile and visual feedback can affect the brain
Of course it sounds better.

Plug-ins are pieces of boring software on a boring computer screen that can also run at
the same time an utterly boring accountant's software like MS Excel. You don't want to
be a boring accountant, don't you?

[fmr]

The general answer to all such threads is as follows: If you badly want a sound of a specific synth, buy this synth. If you just want to make music you are good to go with any state-of-art SW and/or HW synths.

DITTO

[ObsoleteAcc99]

You would be amazed at how much tactile and visual feedback can affect the brain
Of course it sounds better.

Plug-ins are pieces of boring software on a boring computer screen that can also run at
the same time an utterly boring accountant's software like MS Excel. You don't want to
be a boring accountant, don't you?

not at all.. it was that video i linked to that prompted me to make the trip out today to my mate's..

the video is initially what did it for me.. i never heard anything like it in software....

then it was just further cemented....(and very enjoyable hehe).

It's interesting how so many software vs hardware synth threads occur, and always instantly there are examples, and this time now that I started it it's "don't worry about it"

probably cause i finally presented a synth (rather than a virus), that destroys the sound quality of any software synth?

Anyway i am genuinely curious if there is any software that sounds this good. Cause if there is, i would like to own that too for on the go. Seriously.

[cocoazenith]

You would be amazed at how much tactile and visual feedback can affect the brain
Of course it sounds better.

Plug-ins are pieces of boring software on a boring computer screen that can also run at
the same time an utterly boring accountant's software like MS Excel. You don't want to
be a boring accountant, don't you?

not at all.. it was that video i linked to that prompted me to make the trip out today to my mate's..

the video is initially what did it for me.. i never heard anything like it in software....

then it was just further cemented....(and very enjoyable hehe).

It's interesting how so many software vs hardware synth threads occur, and always instantly there are examples, and this time now that I started it it's "don't worry about it"

probably cause i finally presented a synth (rather than a virus), that destroys the sound quality of any software synth?

Anyway i am genuinely curious if there is any software that sounds this good. Cause if there is, i would like to own that too for on the go. Seriously.

Sorry but to my ears the A6's sound from the video isn't that impressive.

I could think of a few software synths that in the hands of the magical Mr. Ujie could sound
even better. From the top of my mind: Spire or Diva.

Edit: OK, so the tactile affair is missing from the video. But you still have the visual feedback which in the case of that alien spaceship is hugely perception altering.

[tehlord]

So i am asking in all seriousness... if plugins are as good, why have i NEVER heard ANY plugin that can sound as good? In terms of raw tone and emotion.. playing pads on that thing literally had my entire body in shivers, i almost started crying at one point!

Because they're not. Fact.

If you want to, you can make a plugin sound like an analogue/hardware synth in isolation and in a mix it arguably matters even less.

But as you rightly pointed out if you actually sit down and don't take a single snapshot as cast iron proof then you realise the nuance of hardware runs deep. And that's missing in ALL plugins.

[fmr]

So i am asking in all seriousness... if plugins are as good, why have i NEVER heard ANY plugin that can sound as good? In terms of raw tone and emotion.. playing pads on that thing literally had my entire body in shivers, i almost started crying at one point!

Because they're not. Fact.

If you want to, you can make a plugin sound like an analogue/hardware synth in isolation and in a mix it arguably matters even less.

But as you rightly pointed out if you actually sit down and don't take a single snapshot as cast iron proof then you realise the nuance of hardware runs deep. And that's missing in ALL plugins.

Unless you have a hardware with complete integration (maybe the new Komplete Kontrol can fill that gap) in which case you also have that tactile feeling. Because, soundwise, I don't think that software is so diferente as implied. It's the shiny LEDs, buttons, knobs and sliders that are really missing.

That said, and from what I remember when I tried the Andromeda, it is a wonderful machine, that's for sure. As is the Solaris, and the Schmidt, and the Waldorf Wave, and so many others I have tried during the years.

[Urs]

why have i NEVER heard ANY plugin that can sound as good?

Because Alesis are really good in making reverbs. I mean, really really good. Most on-board reverbs of softsynths (including ours) don't sound as good as the Alesis reverb built into the Andromeda. The best fix for this is to buy a decent reverb and drench the sound of any synth in it, like it was done in the video you linked. Problem solved, huge amounts of money saved

[wagtunes]

Sorry Theo, it's all subjective.

What is great sound?

I'll relate a story that just happened to me. It's totally meaningless but I think illustrates my point. Mind you, I am talking all soft synths here but the point applies to the general.

I was just working on a tune. In fact, I'm going to post it at the end.

I was looking for a stacked pad sound. I had a very specific sound in mind but I wasn't quite sure how I wanted to make it.

To play it safe, I went to my heavy duty monsters like Omni, Falcon, Diva, etc.

All my "great" expensive "can do anything" synths weren't giving me what I was looking for. Finally, I pulled out two synths that I normally wouldn't even think of and started noodling around.

Bingo!

Just what I was looking for.

Here is the track.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenheim ... ing-vocals

The stacked pads come in at 51 seconds, 1:51 and again at around 2:20

I bet nobody can tell me what synths I used on this track, especially the riser in the beginning and end.

In fact, I'm going to make a track today containing 20 different synths and I guarantee you that nobody will be able to name all 20. Heck, I'd be surprised if they could point to more than 1 or 2 parts and specifically name those synths.

In the mix, it all gets washed away. All that "uniqueness" that you hear when just playing a solo pad or lead or whatever. It's all just part of a wide canvas and almost indistinguishable unless it's a sound that's so well known, like the opening synth comp from Van Halen's Jump (and even then, how many people would be able to tell the real Oberheim from an emulation)

This whole topic is so beyond pointless already that it's crossed into the territory of sad.

But hey, I love a good hardware vs software debate as much as the next guy since our lives are so dull and meaningless.

So what two synths did I use to make that stacked pad?

More is coming.

[tehlord]

There's an art to making a point without posting a link to your own soundcloud.

[.jon]

Nice tune wags!

[wagtunes]

There's an art to making a point without posting a link to your own soundcloud.

Oh my, are the big bad forum police going to come after me?

For the love of God, do you have any idea how many people here post links to stuff they did on Soundcloud?

Maybe you need to seriously get a life instead of trying to find something to bitch about.