Best tape emulator?

[zerocrossing]

Nope I read all the posts linked too.. who cares if he doesn't like U-HE stuff in general... He words it very politely and causes no reason for offence. What was offensive was trying to discredit him. 4damind is not a troll.

I've never liked Zebra either, and i have tried to get into it maybe 50 times. So that means I am a troll does it? If anything it just frustrates me that I can't get any use out of it like so many can.

I love diva but he's right, the factory presets are not very good. You either need to program it yourself or invest in third party banks if you are a preset user.

Hive vs sylenth? I like them both but would choose sylenth because i find it's overall tone just that bit more pleasing. Pretty much what he said. I could happily use hive though i will admit.

The guy is not anti U-HE as a company he is just not a huge fan of their stuff in general. That's allowed. I mean you guys have GOT to get a grip and stop bothering people who don't like something you like - kvr has become so temperamental that even when negative opinions are given in the politest of ways, there is always someone ready to jump, or like in this case, spend 15 minutes trying to undo someone.

Heck i just said i prefer codex to serum because i prefer it's basic tone, and that was it! - that was apparently unfair for me to say. this is the new world order at KVR.. i can't make choices based on what my ear transmits to my brain and makes it pleasing for me personally. Or I (we) can't say anything at all. Might as well be chained to a chair with hands bolted into the handles, and our mouth taped.

But when it's a dev who has a mob against them like arturia, waves, anything with ilok, etc.. and actual *bashing* occurs, these same people pointing fingers now sit by and idly watch or join in!
But God forbid saying anything that isn't stellar about a u-he product or serum!

Dear Theo, welcome to the internet. Here, your opinions will be challenged and often dismissed. If you actually read my post, I totally agreed with your assessment of Codex. I merely suggested that you based your opinion of Serum on not digging deep enough into it... and it's crappy reverb.

If you note my contribution to this thread, I didn't think Satin was "the best" either. I maintain that VTAPE is for me, but I seem to be in an ultra small minority on that. I don't care.

Also, it's useful to look back at someone's posts, because it helps you see if their idea of things is aligned with yours. If I see that someone has said disparaging things about say... all XILS Labs synths, I'll know right away that we don't share the same personal tastes in such things. No one is saying that they shouldn't get to have the right to their opinion, but once you make it public, be prepared to have it challenged or dismissed. The internet is no place for the weak of will. Stand by your convictions. Or don't.

[wolverine6]

Variety of sound's SlickHDR in combination with TesslaProMKII to add transience (at about 10%?). But the SlickHDR has some crystal clear "drive" emulation. i highly reccomend it.

I'm a huge fan of Variety of Sound plugins, but somehow SlickHDR is the only VOS plugin that never did anything for me. I have a pretty good monitoring setup, but I couldn't hear any effect on the processed sound at all. TesslyProMKII on the other hand is great for tape and console-style saturation, though the gain-staging is a bit ominouse to set up!

Ominous, yes I agree - I rely on other plugins to provide gain - Because it's gain is quite powerful. But if I remember right - When the author first released hdr - he had pointed out that it was drive without distortion. It does seem rather low impact.

I could see why the drive effect is so popular. In many instances I use it - either in the minimal sense or the latter.

[4damind]

I have nothing against U-He. I own some U-He products (this includes Satin) and use them since years and rate U-He how they handle all this public stuff at a very high level.

Anyway, U-he has some great stuff which IMO raised the bar like Diva, Ace, Zebra... and most users will agree that this are great plugins. But there are also plugins where we find more different opinions this includes Uhbik, the more feedback machine, Hive and Satin, yes sometimes also Zebra.
If listeners on Gearslutz preferring other plugins because of a blindtest instead of Satin, this means only that there are other opinions. We see also in this thread different opinions about the "best tape emulator"... so we can only say: Satin is a good plugin but for some people not a game changer in this department.
Because I'm not a reseller or advertisement/promotion guy for plugin companies and have no personal interest to hype something or make some plugins bad I have no problem with different opinions.

Ok, unfortunately it moved more to a U-He thread for some reason. But I think the thread starter got some recommendations not only from U-He fanboys.

[PALU]

I did a video where I abuse some of the tape plugins - it's too much over the top for your use I fear, but maybe you can find something interesting in the extreme settings I was looking for a tape emulation as an creative effect - not for tape mastering/mixing to tape.

This is exactly how I like to use a tape plug in. Thanks for this. Hopefully I'll get a chance to listen to it on decent speakers later, but by the comments I can see that we basically agree on things. Still, there's a bunch you tried out that I never did.

Nice to hear that - in my original thread I was under an impression that no one understands what I want .

I tested SKnote's Roundtone too, that Quinto have kindly provided to me (there is no demo). But it was too subtle for my use. My original thread about tape sim abuse is here - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=443032

[transmetropolitan]

I decided i prefer products that do not emulate this feature but still sound like the general character of tape, such as UAD ampex and studer, for example. So even if they are technically even a much less accurate emulation, they are more useful for my own mixing needs.I would really love it if U-HE released a second satin dll included in the purchase that worked as the other products do, as I am really heavily into parallel mixing these days. I was only trying to point out this limitation to those into parallel mixing, but if you want the most accurate tape model, satin is it."

I've just got a question about your workflow Theo... what's the reasoning behind wanting to run tape in parallel?

I ask because for me, tape is (nearly) always the last thing on at the end of a channel. Let's say I want to process a snare drum in parallel (which I often do). All I would do in this instance is sum the clean signal and the effected signal onto a bus and apply the tape effect there. I've never once wanted (or it's never occurred to me to want) tape on say 40% of the signal only.

I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice - but I don't really get it myself.

[Twrogstudio]

I use (and love) Satin and VTM, but it's hard to blind test between them because VTM is so incredibly simple. It's why I can't take tests seriously in situations like this, because I know I can make Satin sound like 10 different tape machines if I wanted, so what is the tester doing?

In the end you just have to try these things and not to worry too much about other people's opinions.

[JJ_Jettflow]

I ask because for me, tape is (nearly) always the last thing on at the end of a channel.

In this blog, Steven Slate recommends VTM first... http://slatetips.icyplains.com/

This does make sense as the signal would come from the tape deck, into the board where it would run though effects and then on the master bus where VTM would be placed last.

[Mercado_Negro]

Slate VTM: Also excellent. Soundwise, I think Satin has a slight edge (or at least, the Satin preset I use by default I prefer to VTM). The downside to VTM is it can be almost too transparent at times. Satin can do clean or color equally well, whereas I could never get VTM to sound quite as varied.

This statement seems very interesting to me because it is actually quite the opposite from my point of view. VTM is far from being transparent here in all cases (gain staged properly, input all the way down and compensated, high/med/low bias, etc., etc). I just load it in a track and I can hear it inmediately working. Sometimes that's exactly why I don't use it.

It never ceases to amaze me how different two people can perceive something.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I can hear the bass bump and the tape hiss, and even the wow and flutter on the right source material (piano)...but it always sounds like a well calibrated modern tape machine as opposed to a more colorful 60s or 70s machine. Satin can do those sounds. Hope that clarifies.

[ghettosynth]

Dear Theo, welcome to the internet. Here, your opinions will be challenged and often dismissed. If you actually read my post, I totally agreed with your assessment of Codex. I merely suggested that you based your opinion of Serum on not digging deep enough into it... and it's crappy reverb.

Theo overreacts sometimes, so do I, so I think I can say that, I hope he doesn't mind. But, he's got a pretty serious point. It's not about challenging ideas. It's about people getting all personally offended because you don't like their favorite toys.


Getting back on topic, I only have one tape sim, it's the waves one that comes with the transistor series. I regret buying it, it was the most expensive of the three plugins. So, I'll never buy another one because I don't think that they're worth much.

Oh my favorite, well, I guess it's the waves one that comes with the transistor series. No, I don't know what it's called, that's how little use it gets.

[masterhiggins]

...in fact GS can be full of shit a lot of the time.

To be fair, so can KVR.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

I decided i prefer products that do not emulate this feature but still sound like the general character of tape, such as UAD ampex and studer, for example. So even if they are technically even a much less accurate emulation, they are more useful for my own mixing needs.I would really love it if U-HE released a second satin dll included in the purchase that worked as the other products do, as I am really heavily into parallel mixing these days. I was only trying to point out this limitation to those into parallel mixing, but if you want the most accurate tape model, satin is it."

I've just got a question about your workflow Theo... what's the reasoning behind wanting to run tape in parallel?

I ask because for me, tape is (nearly) always the last thing on at the end of a channel. Let's say I want to process a snare drum in parallel (which I often do). All I would do in this instance is sum the clean signal and the effected signal onto a bus and apply the tape effect there. I've never once wanted (or it's never occurred to me to want) tape on say 40% of the signal only.

I'm not saying it isn't a valid choice - but I don't really get it myself.

i got into it after propellerheads had a wet/dry on their tape.. and a big feature of R7+ was the parallel channels (easiest creation ever for any daw).

I started experimenting with the limited tape plugins they have and i found that often (with AU as well) by the time i get the tape doing what i wanted out of it transients wise, the distortion was a bit too much for my liking.

I actually used to use a comp on one channel and the tape on the other side by side. It worked REALLY well in this track.

I am not saying this is something I do every single day but right now i guess it's a bit of a experimenting time for me, trying every effect imaginable in parallel.

The propellerhead retro plugin actually had a wet/dry on it but it sounded all phasey when the knob was used.. so i guess it was actually the way real tape would respond (afaik it was an impulse system of some kind) so i used alternatives in parallel that didn't have a wet/dry and my own chains i created.

Anyway you'd be surprised, try a tape on one channel and a comp on the other. Also experiment with EQ's and fsu effects, lots of different things in reason don't have a wet/dry (most actually). Make sure the daw has PDC if you are using latent plugins (in reason i had to do manual compensation using a sample delay tool on one of each parallel and it used to get complicated when one effect had more latency than another, i need to use a calculator to work out the chains).

Believe it or not there are some effects that cause phase issues not in parallel to the same source, but just if another track in the mix has something that has similar frequencies. Voxengo LF punch used to do it with the middle filter model and aleksey confirmed it.

I guess i am extra paranoid about phase issues cause i only have one ear and i keep panicking i will miss something in the mix so i am probably just over cautious with every plugin i use (i can generally hear phase problems but i can't hear hass effects at all, they do nothing to me.. it's weird but i am used to it).

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Dear Theo, welcome to the internet. Here, your opinions will be challenged and often dismissed. If you actually read my post, I totally agreed with your assessment of Codex. I merely suggested that you based your opinion of Serum on not digging deep enough into it... and it's crappy reverb.

Theo overreacts sometimes, so do I, so I think I can say that, I hope he doesn't mind. But, he's got a pretty serious point. It's not about challenging ideas. It's about people getting all personally offended because you don't like their favorite toys.


Getting back on topic, I only have one tape sim, it's the waves one that comes with the transistor series. I regret buying it, it was the most expensive of the three plugins. So, I'll never buy another one because I don't think that they're worth much.

Oh my favorite, well, I guess it's the waves one that comes with the transistor series. No, I don't know what it's called, that's how little use it gets.

I do and now that i have calmed down about my blowup before i really regret it. I failed and after meffy gave me so much advice how to control reacting.. for the last 2 years i have bottled it and it was just like hitting a nerve and i exploded. It's all out now so if i manage not to get banned maybe the release will be for the best. I just have to learn once and for all to simply never respond, not kindly, not nastily, simply nothing, to anyone who makes fun of me anymore. Just let it wash off like water off a ducks back.

But yeah sorry for over reacting but thank you very much for understanding my point. A lot of times at KVR people get confused between people and plugins and think if someone says a plugin is poo (or great and the reader doesn't like it), it can become personal like "wash your ears", "what are you some kind of troll", and so forth. It seems you can understand that too.

Cheers

PS don't judge tape plugins in general by kramer It's ok but there's much better. I like automating the funky delay and use it for that more than the tape effect.

[Kinh]

Just wondering and this almost seems like a dumb question but how would you compare some of these emulators mentioned like Satin with Alloy tape distortion?

[ghettosynth]

PS don't judge tape plugins in general by kramer It's ok but there's much better. I like automating the funky delay and use it for that more than the tape effect.

For me, all of this sort of thing just becomes a distraction. I'm not really looking for anything better than Kramer because I don't really see a lot of value in tape plugins to begin with. Yes I've used it, yes it sounds different, maybe better, maybe not.

I should just sell Kramer and pretend like I never purchased any tape plugin.