KVR Audio

glokraw · Post by **glokraw** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:45 am

trimph1 wrote:When you need to be able to do something with a DAW and you need a supplement to be able to work.

Then you are not running an efficient OS.

A linux OS is a daw, and then there are daw apps and plugins
to use within it, if desired.

I choose separate input devices best suited for keyboards,
guitars and vocals. So I have a few real cables to deal with,
and then sometimes different preferred daw apps,
standalone apps, and plugins, each best suited
for the planned tasks, budget allowing.

You seem to be hung up on supplements.
Normal life, and standard studio routines,
are not some kind of evil. Don't you supplement your feet
every day with shoes and socks? Does it bother you that running barefoot is not very efficient, compared to running when wearing
sweat socks, and a pair of shoes from Adidas?

Are you furious that it takes time to find your socks,
and lace up the shoes, let alone washing and drying the laundry?
Do you then supplement the wash water with soap?
Do you supplement the evaporation of water from the laundry,
with a heated drying machine? Supplements don't suck.
We work to be able to get them.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:00 am

glokraw wrote:A linux OS is a daw

No, it's computer OS, that's part of digital audio workstation

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:22 am

RockinMillie wrote: Try reading all the posts in context. There are many people who have contributed to this thread in a respectful manner, without resorting to personal attacks, who like Linux a lot but choose not to use it for music production and state their reasons why.

Exactly, spot on

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:05 am

Guys, some of the posters in this thread are profoundly misinformed.
If you want to learn more about Linux whether for DAW use or for other uses, I suggest going to

Distrowatch.org to research the differences between the hundreds of different Linux OSes. Many distros are specialized for specific purposes, so YES there are hundreds of different Linux OSes. They share a common lineage, and yes they are all Linux, but no, they are not all the same OS. You won't be typically running a DAW on a version of Linux designed to be a firewall or designed for forensic computing. Ignore people who are out of touch. Get the facts yourself from the sites where the facts and and expertise are.

As for Wine, go to WineHQ.com to get the full documentation of Wine. There is also a forum about Wine at UbuntuForums.com

UbuntuForums.com to research things such as Ubuntu Studio, or Xubuntu or Lubuntu or Kubuntu etc if you prefer to use a Ubuntu distro and then install the KXstudio repositories into it to make it into a DAW OS. Also the KXstudio website will be informative.

The people in this thread that came here to fight and argue and mislead and criticize won't help you to build a Linux DAW. They don't even comprehend what it is. They probably have very little technical experience as well.

The thing about Wine to keep in mind is this:

In Windows, you can run Windows programs and that's it. That's the standard install.
In some Linux distros, you can run Linux programs AND windows programs and that's the standard install.

That's the difference. Windows can run Windows, and Linux can run Linux and Windows stuff.
So people who are criticizing Wine on the semantics about emulation are missing the point entirely.

Now if you want to know which programs run successfully on Wine and how they run, consult WineHQ.com
Don't rely upon some of the foolish speculations and petty arguments here.

I don't know if KVRaudio has an ignore list or not, but if it does, you might want to use it on some of the people detracting from what would otherwise be a discussion about Linux abilities to help you compose music.

If people want to talk about setting up a Windows DAW, that's a different thread. So the people who aren't helping the cause should maybe go there if that's where their allegiance is.

Personally, I chose to run whichever gives me the fewest hassles based upon which softwares and hardwares I have and which music softwares I'm committed to. It was also a financial decision. Most Linux distros are free and I was confronted by the ability to run nearly everything as before without having to pay for a new Windows OS that was already part of long tradition of user frustrations. Yes, Linux has it's own frustrations, but they are not the exact same ones. Some things are easier to deal with.

I was able to keep running Image-Line's Toxic Biohazard and Harmor, and Vember Surge, and even Poise on Reaper in Wine. Lately I also use EnergyXT which I also bought. Those were my investments, and they weren't lost when I transitioned to Linux. I still make music regularly and that's what my main point is. I want to be making music, not troubleshooting an OS. And yet it's nice to have an OS that is customizeable for convenience and aesthetic reasons also. That was another reason why I put in the effort to learn Ubuntu Studio Linux.

Wine helps me to get music done and also to run my visual editing Windows freewares from portablefreeware.org Yes, Ubuntu Studio also comes with GIMP, and I use that also. But it's nice that I can still run PhotoFiltre, my main program, without serious roadblocks. I also use XnView for Linux. Wine is still in development and it's getting better all the time. It's a technical accomplishment that it works at all. And that's why I defend it as being a legitimate tool for a linux DAW.

Meanwhile FSTige and some other Linux developments also allow running Windows VST's and I'm in the early stages of learning about those too. Also there are native Linux plugins and Ubuntu Studio comes with a lot of them. But the beauty of Linux is that you can somewhat combine elements from separate distros if they come from the same family and if there aren't too many variations of implementation.

For example, you can install a low-latency kernel in Lubuntu and install the KXstudio repos over that. Ubuntu is a derivative relative of Debian Linux, so some debian programs run on Ubuntu also. Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu and some versions of it are closer to Debian in implementation. That's why distrowatch is interesting. You can read about the differences (and similarities) between the distros. There is also discussion of what types of hardware is required for each distro.

I'm trying to provide support for anybody reading this in the future. The naysayers aren't providing support, their providing controversey where there really is none.

Peace be with ya.

RockinMillie · Post by **RockinMillie** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:50 am

NystagmusE wrote:Guys, some of the posters in this thread are profoundly misinformed.
If you want to learn more about Linux whether for DAW use or for other uses, I suggest going to

Distrowatch.org to research the differences between the hundreds of different Linux OSes. Many distros are specialized for specific purposes, so YES there are hundreds of different Linux OSes. They share a common lineage, and yes they are all Linux, but no, they are not all the same OS.

Alas, it is you who is profoundly misinformed

There is only only one Linux kernel and that is the Linux Operating System.
All the packages (including Wine) that may be optionally installed on top of the kernel are just software. They are not part of the base operating system, they are just applications that interact with the Linux kernel.

There are many different distros based on the Linux kernel. Just as there are many different flavours of UNIX (AIX, HP-UX, Solaris etc.), but they are all UNIX.

But hey, since when did actual real-world facts fit in with any kind of zealot driven thinking ?

KingClarkie · Post by **KingClarkie** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:09 am

NystagmusE wrote:Guys, some of the posters in this thread are profoundly misinformed.
If you want to learn more about Linux whether for DAW use or for other uses, I suggest going to Distrowatch.org to research the differences between the hundreds of different Linux OSes.

Ah the old "it's not Linux that's lacking, it's you" gambit.

As an ex-Linux enthusiast and former Linux Admin/Developer one of the more tiresome aspects of most Linux debates is the ghetto-mentality that many Linux advocates seem to exhibit.

Linux is no longer the 'hidden gem' of the computing world. Most people who have any computing experience beyond simple consumer usage know about it, have tried it, and in most cases have rejected it. It's not a secret anymore. Go into any high-street newsagent and you'll see more magazines about Linux and Linux-related topics than you'll see on Windows. Look in any server-room. Look at the Raspberry Pi. Look at Android. Linux is everywhere - just not on the desktop. Why? Simply because most of the things people want to get done on their computers are not best served by a Linux system and like it or not this includes making music. Yes it can be done but not nearly as effectively or conveniently as it can with Windows or OSX.

If your starting point is "I like Linux, can I make music on it" then by all means go ahead but for most people making music is the priority and the choice of OS is determined by the software it will let them run. If your musical choices are supported by Linux then great but for most of us they are not - and no amount of compromises, emulation environments or other hackery can change that.

Using the right tool for the job is an age-old engineering principle and it applies to Linux as much as it does anything else.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:58 am

NystagmusE wrote:.....

Many of us here actually use Linux every day and others did used it in any point in time, it's not 'hidden gem' as KingClarkie said, so stop calling blasphemy on us and treating us as complete uninformed crowd just because we prefer to do our audio elsewhere and gave our honest opinion about it instead of usual mantra.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:51 pm

I think it could be a good little OS if it had those supplementary parts within the kernal. But seeing as how much fiddling around one has to do with it I think that I will wait and see.

Linux has its strengths but there is a lack within the core of it. Hence my concern as regards fiddling with a few supplements.

NystagmusE · Post by **NystagmusE** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:35 am

@trimph1: Which Linux distros have you tried? Some are easier than others.

@kingclarkie: Your response is just cherrypicking my entire long post, and basically just another character attack. I don't take what you say seriously, so I'm adding you to the ignore list. You seem out of touch with modern Linux DAW issues and provide nothing in this thread for somebody who might want to set up a Linux DAW. Your response to me is empty and yet another distraction from the main issues. You also make assumptions and generalisations about what I said and my motives. System administration experience doesn't make you an expert on Linux DAW use. How many decades ago was that? Times have changed. You are acting like "that guy": http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2015/06/th ... -internet/

To everyone else: if you feel Linux is attractive but you don't know what to expect from it, this forum is not a good primary source of information about the various Linux distributions including those designed for DAW use or allowing DAW use. You'll find better results interacting with those who are actually currently running a Linux DAW on a daily basis. Most of the people in this thread are not those, and that's why I posted a few links to other places. An other good place to start could be http://linuxaudio.org/

RockinMillie · Post by **RockinMillie** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:44 pm

NystagmusE wrote: System administration experience doesn't make you an expert on Linux DAW use ...

However, it does give a person in-depth knowledge of the operating system gained by installing, configuring and troubleshooting it on a daily basis, in a real-world commercial and mission critical environment.
This in-depth knowledge would prevent one from making ludicrous and inaccurate statements such as:

there are hundreds of different Linux OSes

A linux OS is a daw

You are making the incorrect assumption that those of us who don't think that Linux cuts the mustard as a DAW, has never set up a DAW on Linux before.

But then the expert amateur is blissfully unaware of the vast gulf of difference in experience, knowledge and skills between the competent professional and the expert amateur.
The expert amateur doesn't know what they don't know

next level · Post by **next level** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:53 pm

Gonga wrote:Windows 10 has made me realize I have 5 years to switch to Linux before Windows 7 support ends. Basically, I don't like my personal data being uploaded to servers against my will, and hope to close my MS account soon.

So I hope people are using Linux for DAW purposes, and I could use pointers as to which DAWs to look at. I know it'll be a short list. Also, any 'sites that could be helpful? Yep, I'm a Linux noob. Over the past 20 years I've been using Cakewalk and now Cubase. I'm prepared to scale back for a while. It'll do me good.

Thanks for any and all help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NigGXl-fKQo

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:37 pm

@nystagmuS...I will have to get back to you on this. Right off the top of my head I would say Redhat and Ubuntu.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:42 pm

Gonga wrote:Windows 10 has made me realize I have 5 years to switch to Linux before Windows 7 support ends.

Are the prospects that bad?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:54 pm

Numanoid wrote:
Gonga wrote:Windows 10 has made me realize I have 5 years to switch to Linux before Windows 7 support ends.
Are the prospects that bad?

No. Apart from that, even if i wanted, i couldn't switch to Linux. My games won't run, my DAW's won't run... my favourite software won't be replaced. And even Linux sites state that Canonical who run the biggest Linux distro, which would be the one i would switch to if i wanted and could, are not really putting much work into Ubuntu atm, but rather work on their cloud based software, and their phone OS. Basically, development more or less stalled. Unity 8 was announced to be in Ubuntu 14.10, which has come out in late 2014 as the name says. Now it's not even coming in version 16.04, which comes next year, and it's very questionable if it comes in Ubuntu 16.10... really, even if i wanted and could, which distro should i use? Apart from Ubuntu, none even would qualify for usage, OpenSUSE is a buggy cr**, Fedora doesn't even come with any proprietary software (and isn't any better in terms of stability than OpenSUSE), so you won't have MP3 or Flash support out of the box, and it's not even in the official repository, because yo, proprietary is evil mmk, so you have to add 3rd party repositories to the installation to be able to hear MP3's, or view Flash based content on the net... nah, no way.

Sorry to be so negative btw, i wish everyone good luck for their task to "replace" Windows with Linux, there's absolutely no way for me to do so, or to even bother with Linux anymore, it's a never ending construction site for me. I'd frankly rather use MacOS, not only is a strong company with enough ressources behind it, but also there's not a total lack of compatibility or accessibility.

RockinMillie · Post by **RockinMillie** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:39 pm

chk071 wrote:which distro should i use? Apart from Ubuntu, none even would qualify for usage ..

Fundamentally there are 4 main Linux distros which all other Linux distros are derived from:

Debian -
Ubuntu, Kubuntu *buntu, Linux Mint etc

Red Hat / Fedora -
RHEL, Mandriva, CentOS etc (mainly server oriented)

Slackware -
SuSe was originally based on this, but then veered towards using the .rpm package management system and went off on its own tangent, Vector Linux, Slax, Salix OS

Gentoo -
Ututo, Sabayon Linux and some of the more obscure distros.

There are some others such as Arch Linux, LibreWRT etc, but they are not major players:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... ns#General

So in reality, you end up using a distro that is either based on Debian or Red Hat / Fedora or SuSe unless you go for one of the more obscure ones. It's no accident that the majority of distros are Debian based.
The problem with open source is that as chk071 states, development of a distro can just stop altogether.

The thing is that all distros use the same pool of open source software, so you are getting variations on the same pool of software on top of a kernel built for that specific distro (unless you compile your own kernel).

If you did a base install of the Linux O/S of all the distros i.e. a kernel, no X window / desktop, no audio, you will end up with pretty much the same thing: a kernel, a similar command line interface, similar libraries, similar hardware interfaces and similar basic admin tools.
The fundamental differences between them are:

which package manager they use
where some of the files are located in the file system
what approach is used to start the O/S at boot time.

If you want to use a GUI, all distros will need the Xorg package, a window manager and whatever choice of desktop you make from the huge array of Linux desktops available.

If you want audio, will need the ALSA package. Other bits of audio 'stuff' will get added on top of ALSA depending what other packages you install. If you are unlucky you will end up with OSS sitting alongside ALSA at the bottom level.

Numanoid wrote:Are the prospects that bad?

I believe that as Windows 10 matures, a lot of concerns regarding privacy / automatic updates will be either be ironed out by MS or feasible work-arounds will be found by the user community.
Whilst Win 10 is far from perfect, I don't think the situation is as dire as the OP may think.

Setting up a Linux DAW