KVR Audio

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:19 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Sample rate has not much to do with clipping, bit depth does - and output gain of course

I meant 96/24... You'd think it would take a lot to make it clip. But finding the specific trim for digital out took care of it. But, it doesn't have a meter, so you can't tell if it is clipping or not. At least not that I have learned so far. Of course I just found it 15 minutes ago ... so I claim no expertise.

Aleatoriac · Post by **Aleatoriac** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:24 pm

If it's not the Axe FX or some other Real Tube Amp it sucks

Damn all evidence to the contrary, I spent a lot of money on the Axe FX therefore my opinion is somehow objectively the right one to have.

f**k logic.

(f**k... f**k the study of valid reasoning, not the DAW).

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:31 pm

Codestation wrote:If it's not the Axe FX or some other Real Tube Amp it sucks

Damn all evidence to the contrary, I spent a lot of money on the Axe FX therefore my opinion is somehow objectively the right one to have.

f**k logic.

(f**k... f**k the study of valid reasoning, not the DAW).

HAHA

Actually, I was leaning towards a Kemper. I really think any one of the flagship choices are pretty much amazing. Each has its own advantges though.

Aleatoriac · Post by **Aleatoriac** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:28 am

I know, I've been using modelers for... since 1997? Hated all of them. Pretty much TSE X50 V2 changed all that for me, then I started hearing things I liked in the Axe FX around Firmware 15, so I bought one. Haven't touched my tube amp since.

The Kemper sounds great, the Line 6 Helix sounds great, I did demo a Line 6 and it plays great too. I can't tell the difference, really, at this point, Axe / Kemper / Helix, they're all there. Just have to get them loud enough.

Probably because I can barely hear anything anymore

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:45 am

Codestation wrote:I know, I've been using modelers for... since 1997? Hated all of them. Pretty much TSE X50 V2 changed all that for me, then I started hearing things I liked in the Axe FX around Firmware 15, so I bought one. Haven't touched my tube amp since.

The Kemper sounds great, the Line 6 Helix sounds great, I did demo a Line 6 and it plays great too. I can't tell the difference, really, at this point, Axe / Kemper / Helix, they're all there. Just have to get them loud enough.

Probably because I can barely hear anything anymore

I find it difficult with every modeler I've used to gain stage. I can plug into an amp and it sounds good instantly. I plug into a modeler and it sounds like shit and takes me forever to get something remotely resembling what I get automatically out of a tube amp. I know some people seem to be able to pop out amazing sounding recordings with modelers seemingly at will. I have no such luck. I fight with them tooth and nail and am never really satisfied. They don't inspire me to play. They frustrate me to distraction.

But, with the Helix I found it very easy to get a sound that I like. It still is difficult to gain stage and get the tones I expect. Look no further than the Twin demo clip I did where it clips if I hit the strings hard. Trying to figure out where that was coming from and fixing it without f'n up the tone is not trivial.

Keeping with that patch I attached, A Twin has 1 volume knob, and at 2 you can't be in the same room as the amp without ear protection and of course the difference between 3 and 9 is almost negligible. The model in Helix has Gain, Channel and Master knobs and they all have near linear gain. So treating it like a twin is impossible. Pretty much the same weirdness across all amp modelers. So, trying to get those knobs in a position where it sounds like a Twin on 2.5 is really hard for me. However, with the Helix I figured it out fairly quickly. Gain is supposedly the Twins Volume, although the tapper is completely wrong IMO. Master is some kind of goofy "bonus" stage, which when set to 10 should be invisible to the tone stack (but isn't). Channel is like a post fader I guess. But again, lowering it really affects the squishy chime you should get out of twin. And for good measure, throw in the various output trimmers.

It probably sounds like I'm complaining. I am not. The fact that these things can be tweaked to sound this good is really amazing. I just wish I was better at tweaking them. Helix has been the easiest modeler to dial in that I've used to date.

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:48 am

Pros outweigh the cons? Well, it better for 1500 bucks

STILL, have not had one in this area, not ever, no matter what. Not dropping that coin on something I've not used and/or is not easily returnable.

Btw, examples?

Digital_Igloo · Post by **Digital_Igloo** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:42 am

SJ_Digriz wrote:It runs out of DSP faster than I thought it would.

In that particular preset, you're only using about half the available DSP. Each of the two paths get their own DSP, and Path 2 only has a single Modulation block on it. If you route Path 1 into 2, you'll be able to add a lot more blocks.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:53 am

Yep he found out he was running Helix at 96k, which would halve the available DSP naturally.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:30 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Yep he found out he was running Helix at 96k, which would halve the available DSP naturally.

Igloo is correct. I'm not using path 2. Evidently the sample rate doesn't affect available DSP per path. I was trying to keep path 2 as a vocal path.

This is part of the problem about posting opinions and information about gear you don't fully understand. I have provided quite a bit of bad information or misleading information while I try to figure out various issues.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:40 pm

incubus wrote:Pros outweigh the cons? Well, it better for 1500 bucks

STILL, have not had one in this area, not ever, no matter what. Not dropping that coin on something I've not used and/or is not easily returnable.

Btw, examples?

There's an example post earlier right after the picture of the patch

In this case, the pros FAR outweigh the cons. And a lot of the cons are user ignorance. I guess my only real complaint is again that I suck at trying to set up patches. Other people patches rarely work for me either. I dig how they sound when the person who made them records them, but they never sound like that when I plug into them. They always clip or are way too thin or the volume is too low or too high ... then I start twiddling .. then they don't sound right .. rinse/repeat.

But to be honest I'm pretty stoked with it.

Digital_Igloo · Post by **Digital_Igloo** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:15 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Yep he found out he was running Helix at 96k, which would halve the available DSP naturally.
Evidently the sample rate doesn't affect available DSP per path.

Correct. The Sample Rate parameter affects the digital outputs only and has zero impact on DSP usage.

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:27 am

Well, again, if I ever get a REAL WORLD chance at checking it out, who knows. But for now I'll live with what I have.

Even my GT-100 smokes "amp sims" (and I've used virtually all of them) with a minor eq setting.

Everyone is different. I've heard people pan on even the top-flight stuff (kemper, axe, helix) so it's usually debated in the context of "that great guitar tone" vs a mix in an actual song.

Still, really tripping on getting a chance to try one of these:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical- ... ode=series

Oh well, cash is tight and they are rarely available at one of my "no interest" card sites.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:49 am

@SJ_Digriz
If you want to monitor digital output level of a modeller connected via SPDIF to your audio interface you should be able to see metering in your interface software (eg Totalmix for RME interfaces) or see it in your DAW - input clipping should show on any channel with the SPDIF assigned to it and would also show in the mixer input channels. Some of these devices have a red clipping LED which lights up if the output is clipping.

incubus · Post by **incubus** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:50 am

I was watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbyd9mXo6rM

That guy is maybe a hair better guitar player than me (well, what he's playing) and that sounds good to my ears.

But, that's really about the best tone I've heard from it.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:06 pm

Have you watched this guys stuff? Skip to about 1:30 or so. He talks a lot. Also look at all the artist patch videos to find one that you would be critical about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftBZUtHwgZU