New Vengeance synth in the works

[toby]

Any screenshots yet?

[msvs]

not yet, the synth is too ugly at the moment to show. The GUI is not there yet.

[recursive one]

msvs, could you please share something about the synth itself? What synthesis methods, archeticture, etc. I guess it should be something appealing to dance music producers, is it?

[ObsoleteAcc99]

the only hope i have would be that they finally drop the dongle requirement... i'd love to work with nexus and their effect plugins, but i will never ever waste a usb port just because of an archaic copy protection system that is just an imposition for the people who buy software legally... but that is another story i guess

Yeah I rather have them drop the dongle than see another synth too.

It's just hilarious that the VERY first answer in this topic was about a dongle.. only at KVR. I mean really, only at kvr literally.

I have news for you... Vengeance stuff will NEVER be without the elicenser dongle. So either buy it or don't, that simple really.

The thing that is weird is, it will NEVER happen yet people think by complaining at KVR they somehow have a shot to change refx/vengeance/keilwerth's sales practises - Manuel wouldn't even consider it and I am thankful he won't and guess what? The model works for him - his stuff and his stuff for reFX sells like there's no tomorrow.. much better than many plugins which don't use a dongle. Why? Cause people want to buy it.

The vocal minority (0001%) who always bring it up at KVR will never ever change that - what they care about are how they are making millions of dollars with a working model and that in the REAL world, people just accept the dongle and buy it and in the REAL world, they have tons of cubase customers who already have a dongle.

[tristan-]

i have lots of vengeance plugs. but frankly? i could use without the dongle
i don't think piracy affects sales. as people who pirate wouldn't have bought the stuff in the first place.

i use cubase 8.5 (not only) and i hear that almost 50% of its size is code which is relevant to the protection alone. is this true? because if that's the case protection also severely affects performance. if i could have cubase twice as fast?

[tappert]

The vocal minority (0001%) who always bring it up at KVR will never ever change that

People complained about it and finally Arturia removed it

[Dasheesh]

Everybody has everything. It's all cracked if you want it, but you can't use it all. People who are any good will find thier instrument and pay for it and put down the rest. If you don't pay for what you use nobody will take you seriously. You are not fooling anyone. You CAN make a pence using crack obviously. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Find your instrument. Pay for it. Own it. Dongles and software managers hurt legit customers.

[chk071]

The vocal minority (0001%) who always bring it up at KVR will never ever change that

People complained about it and finally Arturia removed it

Fact? I always thought it was rather due to the fact that their plugins might not have sold as well as they used to, the lowered prices are a pretty heavy indicator for that. I doubt that ANY company would remove their copy protection, if their products sell well, there simply would be no need for that then.

[recursive one]

I find it weird when people are complaining about dongles. I do consider that dongles are not very convenient, but for me personally any dongled product that could potentially interest me currently has a non-dongled alternative, which only means less money for some devs and more money to another ones.

However in case there were something unique and cool (e.g., native port of Virus TDM - I know that this is not going to happen) but dongled I'd buy this thing without hesitation.

[original flipper]

Hi

I find it weird when people are complaining about dongles. I do consider that dongles are not very convenient,

You may have discovered why some people don't like dongles!

The whole point of a forum is that people network - whereby thoughts and ideas get distributed - by airing a view, you or me, may in some little way influence someone else - in this case posters believe that by posting their views on dongles some developers may opt for something else - it has happened in the past.

Of course, there is some frustration in there as well - many of us are 'addicted consumers of music software', albeit with preferences for particular 'ways' of accessing the said software.

[chk071]

Hi

I find it weird when people are complaining about dongles. I do consider that dongles are not very convenient,

You may have discovered why some people don't like dongles!

The whole point of a forum is that people network - whereby thoughts and ideas get distributed - by airing a view, you or me, may in some little way influence someone else - in this case posters believe that by posting their views on dongles some developers may opt for something else - it has happened in the past.

Of course, there is some frustration in there as well - many of us are 'addicted consumers of music software', albeit with preferences for particular 'ways' of accessing the said software.

It's ridiculous to think that forum opinions weigh more than sales figures though. If your software sells well, it's not relevant if there are 50 people on internet forums who think that your copy protection sucks.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

The point is that at kvr every new topic thread where the product is using a dongle of ANY kind, is poisoned with immediate and pointless backlash.

I think there should be a dongle moan zone and that discussion in the product topic itself should be completely banned.

Arturia used soft e licenser and were cracked. They did not have a mandatory dongle at all thank you very much. And now we have to trust their CR servers instead.. Yeah big improvement

IK, RP, Izotope and arturia(ish). That's it in history who has moved away from dongle.

In 14 years.

[chk071]

Arturia used soft e licenser and were cracked. They did not have a mandatory dongle at all thank you very much. And now we have to trust their CR servers instead.. Yeah big improvement

Yep, just what i was thinking... a big sigh of relief, at least among forum users, just to install another license manager on their system, and rely on their servers in order to activate the system. What kind of an improvement should that be?

[Guenon]

IK, RP, Izotope and arturia(ish). That's it in history who has moved away from dongle.

In 14 years.

Softube, Waves, EastWest, UVI, Soundtoys, Celemony, PSP... and I'm sure there are more.

Also, we're living in a bubble here, as moving away from dongles is what other industries have done long ago. Don't see much graphics or office software with those anymore . As they generally generate so much negativity, they are mainly used in very specialized enterprise products nowadays. And in quite a bit of audio software, for some reason.

In my opinion, the best way to go about it (if you need to enforce DRM of some kind) is giving the customer a fair option. Let them choose whether to use a dongle if the portability is preferred, or use an activation without a dongle if the physical USB key is an inconvenience. Some (most?) of the above have done just that, after being physical dongle only.

[chk071]

IK, RP, Izotope and arturia(ish). That's it in history who has moved away from dongle.

In 14 years.

Softube, Waves, EastWest, UVI, Soundtoys, Celemony, PSP... and I'm sure there are more.

I guess the list of companies who actually moved TO dongle as a copy protection is equally long, if not longer.

Also, we're living in a bubble here, as moving away from dongles is what other industries have done long ago. Don't see much graphics or office software with those anymore . As they generally generate so much negativity, they are mainly used in very specialized enterprise products nowadays. And in quite a bit of audio software, for some reason.

But how can you say that? As i mentioned above, it's a few forum users which usually complain about dongles, the sales figures are the important thing, and if those don't suffer over dongle protection, companies don't have a compelling reason to move away from such a copy protection. Not to mention that the typical forum users is hardly representative for the common customer of the product. I mean, no offense, but there:s 1. many hobbyists here, and 2. many who rather discuss here all day long than actually making music, and using the products. And there's also the typical type of user present here who always feels neglected, because feature XY which he wanted to years now has still not been implemented into the software, so the internet is the only place he can rant about it, and generally about the software, because he still doesn't make better music, even though he already spent thousands of € into music software.

Again, this is not the general average of music production software, but usually a rather special selection of users. Yes, there are also users here or elsewhere which rather represent the productive (professional) average of music software users, but i would say that's pretty 50:50 ratio to the people i just described (including me as a hobbyists). Again, considering how many people really post here frequently that's like a minority of a minority of a minority. You just can't figure out a general tendency out of this, and as a company, i would avoid picking up every point being made by online users, and rather think about what would be worth implementing in my scheme of how i feel my software should be like. And that's also how it's being done usually.