Carpenters Vs. Zappa

[jancivil]

what if karen carpenter had been a singer/drummer for zappa?

Vai talking of Vinnie's audition: "He's one of the most amazing sight-readers that ever existed on the instrument. One day we were in a Frank rehearsal, this was early '80s, and Frank brought in this piece of music called "Mo 'N Herb's Vacation." Just unbelievably complex. All the drums were written out, just like "The Black Page" except even more complex. There were these runs of like 17 over 3 and every drumhead is notated differently. And there were a whole bunch of people there, I think Bozzio was there. Vinnie had this piece of music on the stand to his right. To his left he had another music stand with a plate of sushi on it, okay? Now the tempo of the piece was very slow, like "The Black Page." And then the first riff came in, [mimics bizarre Zappa-esque drum rhythm patterns] with all these choking of cymbals, and hi-hat, riffs, spinning of rototoms and all this crazy stuff. And I saw Vinnie reading this thing. Now, Vinnie has this habit of pushing his glasses up with the middle finger of his right hand. Well I saw him look at this one bar of music, it was the last bar of music on the page. He started to play it as he was turning the page with one hand, and then once the page was turned he continued playing the riff with his right hand, as he reached over with his left hand, grabbed a piece of sushi and put it in his mouth, continued the riff with his left hand and feet, pushed his glasses up, and then played the remaining part of the bar. It was the slickest thing I have ever seen. Frank threw his music up in the air. Bozzio turned around and walked away. I just started laughing."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haZ4xRwkRVQ

[Bombadil]

While I'll grant Zappa had enormous talent, I never really liked his music. His emotional remoteness coupled with his irony just turned me off. He was full of himself, but then so are many others. He had nothing to say to me, though I did laugh a lot at 'Just Another Band From L.A.' on a couple of acid trips.

The Carpenters were too M.O.R. for me at the time, though I could probably happily listen to it now as background music on a romantic evening with my wife. Never liked their version of 'Ticket To Ride,' though.

[Harry_HH]

While I'll grant Zappa had enormous talent, I never really liked his music. His emotional remoteness coupled with his irony just turned me off. He was full of himself, but then so are many others. He had nothing to say to me, though I did laugh a lot at 'Just Another Band From L.A.' on a couple of acid trips.

The Carpenters were too M.O.R. for me at the time, though I could probably happily listen to it now as background music on a romantic evening with my wife. Never liked their version of 'Ticket To Ride,' though.

Although Zappa is/was (I saw him live, too) hardly "easy listen" (except maybe Joe's garage-Sheik Yerbouti era was ment to be "pop", spiced with irony, of course) very inspiring most of the time. Many important innovators are a bit heavy-to-listen, e.g. Stravinsky, Prokofjev.
I agree with you about the Carpenters. But although sometimes too cheesy arrs, in generally most enjoyable as the "sweet pop" representatives. They belong to the great ones in my books. And yes, their Ticket To Ride was a flop (although Beatles was one of their most important source of inspirations), it seems that any "rough" was hard Richard to implement musically.

[Bombadil]

Yeah, but it was his pose as being once removed from his music, his attitude, that annoys(ed) me. He sneered at practically everything without actually contributing more than sneering. It's difficult for me to articulate. I could listen to him play guitar all day long, and I know I'll never play like that, but I'd rather listen to Hendrix or Joe Pass as far as innovators go.

[Harry_HH]

Yeah, but it was his pose as being once removed from his music, his attitude, that annoys(ed) me. He sneered at practically everything without actually contributing more than sneering. It's difficult for me to articulate. I could listen to him play guitar all day long, and I know I'll never play like that, but I'd rather listen to Hendrix or Joe Pass as far as innovators go.

I know what you mean - but on the other hand, how many rock musicians have really contributed anything politically? Zappas contribution was art/music, and although critical, politically more active than e.g. Sting or Bono type of guys.
Zappa, Hendrix, Joe Pass - all great innovators, for different moods.

[Numanoid]

If Zappa didn't have to spend time in jail during the 60's he might not have become the person he became.

It is kind of weird that he doesn't share more about that experience in his lyrics.

[dea-man]

If Zappa didn't have to spend time in jail during the 60's he might not have become the person he became.

It is kind of weird that he doesn't share more about that experience in his lyrics.

I wasn't aware that he did time.

What were the charges?

[Numanoid]

I wasn't aware that he did time.

What were the charges?

As I recall, he ran a studio in the early 60's and was tricked into making a "risky sex-tape" by undercover police

It is something that is totally laughable to think about now that somebody could be even charged for such a thing, but one can understand why he viewed the establishment with suspicision after being tricked in that case.

[Harry_HH]

If Zappa didn't have to spend time in jail during the 60's he might not have become the person he became.

It is kind of weird that he doesn't share more about that experience in his lyrics.

More? To me most of his lyrics are editorialised, political, telling stories of society, incl. jails. Stories are veiled often funny, crazy, sexual etc. Of course he wanted to have fun, too, being just angry all the time would be very tiresome.

[jancivil]

Joe's Garage, NB: Outside Now

I've got it!
I'll be sullen and withdrawn --
I'll dwindle off into the twilight realm
Of my own secret thoughts!
I'll lay on my back here 'til dawn,
In a semi-catatonic state
And dream of guitar notes
That would irritate
An executive kinda guy...
Well, I guess that one did the trick!
If they only coulda heard it,
Half-a-dozen of 'em woulda strangled
While they was suckin' on each others' dick!

But that was only a bunch of
Imaginary notes I played --
Just a little extra somethin'
To keep me goin' from day to day
But that's okay --
I'll be gettin' outta here pretty soon --
Then I won't have to live
In this ugly fuckin' room

and 'There's 44 men stashed away in Tank C; and there's only one shower but it don't apply to Bobby'. - San Ber'dino

"He sneered at practically everything without actually contributing more than sneering." Is that a fact. That is hardly a fair comment. sacred cow-tipper?...

[jancivil]

1986: frank-zappa-warns-of-fascist-theocracy (w. video)

[experimental.crow]

1986: frank-zappa-warns-of-fascist-theocracy (w. video)

man knew his Heinlein ...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/2 ... Christians

i've probably doomed this to HPC ...

[Bombadil]

Joe's Garage, NB: Outside Now

I've got it!
I'll be sullen and withdrawn --
I'll dwindle off into the twilight realm
Of my own secret thoughts!
I'll lay on my back here 'til dawn,
In a semi-catatonic state
And dream of guitar notes
That would irritate
An executive kinda guy...
Well, I guess that one did the trick!
If they only coulda heard it,
Half-a-dozen of 'em woulda strangled
While they was suckin' on each others' dick!

But that was only a bunch of
Imaginary notes I played --
Just a little extra somethin'
To keep me goin' from day to day
But that's okay --
I'll be gettin' outta here pretty soon --
Then I won't have to live
In this ugly fuckin' room

and 'There's 44 men stashed away in Tank C; and there's only one shower but it don't apply to Bobby'. - San Ber'dino

"He sneered at practically everything without actually contributing more than sneering." Is that a fact. That is hardly a fair comment. sacred cow-tipper?...

It is my perception of him. He knocked a couple of my sacred cows, certainly, but so have others. That isn't what bothers me about him. I just kinda became 'allergic' to musicians who really have nothing positive to offer, whether politically, spiritually, or even materially. All they can do is tear something down, without offering up any alternative. Also, being clever for the sake of being clever leaves me cold. In interviews, he usually seemed to be quite sullen and have a chip on his shoulder. He was purportedly quite anti-drug, yet I would argue that the greatest proportion of his fans were partakers, and that his music was composed for that demographic. Just my views of the man and his music.

[jancivil]

duplicate

[jancivil]

I just kinda became 'allergic' to musicians who really have nothing positive to offer, whether politically, spiritually, or even materially. All they can do is tear something down, without offering up any alternative. Also, being clever for the sake of being clever leaves me cold.

Well, I think all of that is unfair and severe. He fought for the 1st Amendment, got up there and spoke to congress and fought in the media during all of that PMRC debacle. He considered running for POTUS later but found the Libertarian Platform nonsensical. He put out PSAs on the responsibility of voting and promoted that all during 1988 US tour. After the end of the Soviet, he promoted business in Eastern Europe and sought alliance until he pissed the PTB off by dissing Dan Quayle and he was yanked.

I would say that his music works for me in a spiritual way, typically. Clever for the sake of clever, what does that even mean. It doesn't sound better than resentment. I feel sure that he was emotionally invested in every bit of music he did. For me, you're doing exactly what you are on about, tearing something down with nothing really substantive to say, offering the discussion only pique and a bad vibe.