Anyone excited to control their VSTs with Akai Advance?

[loachm]

That's a truly pathetic list of instruments.

...that's possibly a truly pathetic post considering that Nektar and Akai might differ quite a lot in their number of employees and funds (still pure speculation). I agree with you how much behind the industry is in this area, but I think your word choice is a bit harsh. The way it looks Nektar seems to be among those developers that you'd like to see, i.e. people who want to make a difference. Their list of supported DAWs & plug-ins has been continuously growing (with free updates) and it looks as if they'd started with the software that is most common...

[aMUSEd]

It is a surprisingly small list though, I thought for some reason they were up there with Kore at least in terms of instrument support.

[MarlaPodolski]

Loach; "I agree with you how much behind the industry is in this area, but I think your word choice is a bit harsh."

Part A: you agree -- fine.

Part B: you don't like my word choice -- tough. Grow up.

[loachm]

...I didn't say I like or dislike your language - I said I think, calling this list pathetic is too harsh and a more grown-up part of my brain explained why and was merely pointing out your own contradiction. What the adolescent part of my brain thought about your post for the most part I can't write here unless I want to violate the netiquette. If these controller things were that easy (or lucrative), then the whole industry wouldn't be so much "behind"...

@amused - yup, they currently list only the most common plug-ins, as their main focus is the DAW integration, so a lot of their efforts must go into this. Personally, I'd cut them some slack, as the Panorama series was introduced in early 2013, I think, and Kore in 2004 IIRC. Even then NI was probably a much larger company than Nektar still is today and I guess, most of the Kore mappings were done by you over the last years (thanks for that!)...

[Naenyn]

That's a truly pathetic list of instruments.

I won't know for sure until I receive mine, but I'd be willing to bet that the list on Nektar's website is not a full list. It is my understanding that they're constantly adding to it and that users can make their own too.

[justin3am]

I won't know for sure until I receive mine, but I'd be willing to bet that the list on Nektar's website is not a full list. It is my understanding that they're constantly adding to it and that users can make their own too.

Indeed, we just released an update which included maps for Xfer Serum, Dune 2 and Lush101, just to name a few. We've also introduced a method for saving plug-in maps per-preset (for example, with Kontakt and Reaktor), so we can provide individual plug-in maps for instruments like Monark and Razor. The website will likely be updated soon to reflect the most recent update.

Since the beginning we've tried to show that we are dedicated to improving our products, so that they become more useful/valuable over time. When we get customer feedback, it commonly influences our development decisions. Since we are a small team, contacting support often means talking directly to someone who is involved with those development decisions. The plug-in maps we make are typically the result of customer requests. I have sent out new plug-in maps within the same day a request was made (not a common scenario, but it has happened!). Hell, when I buy a new plug-in for personal use, it gets mapped and added to the list of Nektar maps (see Aalto, Kaivo, u-he plug-ins, etc.).

[Doc Brown]

I won't know for sure until I receive mine, but I'd be willing to bet that the list on Nektar's website is not a full list. It is my understanding that they're constantly adding to it and that users can make their own too.

Indeed, we just released an update which included maps for Xfer Serum, Dune 2 and Lush101, just to name a few. We've also introduced a method for saving plug-in maps per-preset (for example, with Kontakt and Reaktor), so we can provide individual plug-in maps for instruments like Monark and Razor. The website will likely be updated soon to reflect the most recent update.

Since the beginning we've tried to show that we are dedicated to improving our products, so that they become more useful/valuable over time. When we get customer feedback, it commonly influences our development decisions. Since we are a small team, contacting support often means talking directly to someone who is involved with those development decisions. The plug-in maps we make are typically the result of customer requests. I have sent out new plug-in maps within the same day a request was made (not a common scenario, but it has happened!). Hell, when I buy a new plug-in for personal use, it gets mapped and added to the list of Nektar maps (see Aalto, Kaivo, u-he plug-ins, etc.).

Very cool indeed. Keep it up.

[TimmyJC]

You also have to consider the level of mapping by Nektar. Akai's VIP has 4 generic pages of 8. Nektar organize all parameters of the plugin into modules and present them in a plugin-specific navigation menu utilizing all of the faders and encoders on the Panorama.

[trusampler]

This video shows the preset management part in detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoSn5tuHiQE

Thanks Big Tick for showing this video, of the software in action, this will help tremendously with great synths, (such as Dune2 and U-He Diva) imo with average browsers. I personally can't wait for this workflow, this has been what I've wanted out of my Keyboard controllers, ever since I got comfortable with vst's and moved away from hardware synths almost completely, but up until now, there was always something, missing.

Akai and yourself seemed to have answered that for me with this software, I just hope it's stable!

[loachm]

Akai's VIP has 4 generic pages of 8.

...does that mean not all available parameters of a plug-in are mapped? I didn't find that info on the Akai page. Where can I find it?

@BigTick: the documentation about the Advanced series and VIP already is quite comprehensive in Akia'S website , but will there be documents that might allow us to see what parameters of a plug-in are mapped and how? And if a user can't work with a specific mapping, will it be possible to change it to one's own liking and would this affect the plug-in's preset or will they adapt to the new mapping?

[Lotuzia]

For such a piece of gear it may be worth taking the effort doing the mappings ourselves. A good community setup sharing system would work too.

I'm surprised that there's so few user and/or developer made Automap templates out there.
On the other hand, a template might be set up logically for someone else, but not for me. (e.g. I think non-continuous oscilator waveform selection should be a button, not a knob/encoder/fader)
Still, a user made template is usually easier to adapt than an automatically generated...

Well I mused with the idea of proposing some for a while, because I have made many *pro* Automap templates for my synths.

Then something happened : I used on a secondary system a cheaper M-Audio Keyboard controller on a laptop. So no Automap installed. And guess what ? All my older project could NOT find any of the instruments that I had used in the projects ....... So dozens of 'Could not find Kontakt Automap thing' when opening EACH project. And when you bypass this, you have to REDO all your Kontakt layers, mappings, multis and reload regular versions of each VSTI you have used, and find each preset you were using in each synth. Oh, you did not take a note about the presets used ? Then good luck browsing in your thousands presets for each synth. And after that I sweared that I would NEVER use a wrapper again. Whatever handy they can be when you do projects, they are a real pita if you decide for one reason to change the brand of your controller and want to open old projects, ie your work, your music. Nowadays, I largely prefer to use VSTIs that SAVE a map of the CCs inside the Vsti itself. Because this way, my projects will ALWAYS be compatible. And sorry Akai, but this is the same for any wrapper solution, until one will offer to get rid of the wrapper if necessary, with the embedded code inside. So to end the story, I decided I would certainly not offer Automap templates to my users that I would NOT use myself

[T-CM11]

Well I mused with the idea of proposing some for a while, because I have made many *pro* Automap templates for my synths.

Then something happened : I used on a secondary system a cheaper M-Audio Keyboard controller on a laptop. So no Automap installed. And guess what ? All my older project could NOT find any of the instruments that I had used in the projects ....... So dozens of 'Could not find Kontakt Automap thing' when opening EACH project. And when you bypass this, you have to REDO all your Kontakt layers, mappings, multis and reload regular versions of each VSTI you have used, and find each preset you were using in each synth. Oh, you did not take a note about the presets used ? Then good luck browsing in your thousands presets for each synth. And after that I sweared that I would NEVER use a wrapper again. Whatever handy they can be when you do projects, they are a real pita if you decide for one reason to change the brand of your controller and want to open old projects, ie your work, your music. Nowadays, I largely prefer to use VSTIs that SAVE a map of the CCs inside the Vsti itself. Because this way, my projects will ALWAYS be compatible. And sorry Akai, but this is the same for any wrapper solution, until one will offer to get rid of the wrapper if necessary, with the embedded code inside. So to end the story, I decided I would certainly not offer Automap templates to my users that I would NOT use myself

I don't think that's still the case with Automap 4+. The regular plugin should be loaded when the automapped one isn't found.
I'm not sure about it though, I'll test it this weekend!

[Big Tick]

...does that mean not all available parameters of a plug-in are mapped? I didn't find that info on the Akai page. Where can I find it?

You can map any parameter you want but you have a limited number of physical controls to map them to (4x8 knobs and 4x8 buttons). This might sound like a limitation, but is more than that really useful for performance playing ? For fine-tuning a sound, the best interface is the plugin UI anyway.

will there be documents that might allow us to see what parameters of a plug-in are mapped and how? And if a user can't work with a specific mapping, will it be possible to change it to one's own liking and would this affect the plug-in's preset or will they adapt to the new mapping?

You can see the mappings directly in VIP UI, or on the hardware screen. You can also customize the mappings, either globally for a plugin, or for a specific preset. Either way, it does not affect the preset. Based on the mapping, VIP controls (and the hardware) update to show the actual preset values.

And sorry Akai, but this is the same for any wrapper solution, until one will offer to get rid of the wrapper if necessary

You have to view VIP less as a wrapper, and more like an enhancement to your DAW. You can install it on both systems and open your projects on the second one, even without the hardware. Also, contrary to automap, it doesn't create hundreds of duplicate plugins.

[Astralp]

You have to view VIP less as a wrapper, and more like an enhancement to your DAW. You can install it on both systems and open your projects on the second one, even without the hardware. Also, contrary to automap, it doesn't create hundreds of duplicate plugins.

Interesting. What what about the DAW project without the Akai software, would that still open correctly?

[Big Tick]

Interesting. What what about the DAW project without the Akai software, would that still open correctly?

Obviously not, just like a DAW project with a missing plugin.
If the concern is for collaborating with other users who don't have the controller... well, VIP doesn't require a serial number