JoBoMusic Flexion (new synth !!!)

[MillerSam]

[quote="wagtunes" I know a little something about programs. The basic engine of the synth has to come complete, unless they're seriously making a cut down version.

If you think that, you dont know enough about programs. Its entirely possible to build synth plugin which has its capabilities extended by its own 'plugin' format. In fact, its already been done.

Could you name some examples so I know what you're talking about because all the synth VSTs that I have are all self contained except for 3rd party patch libraries. Maybe Rekator could be considered an exception as it's more a shell than anything else and can host just about any kind of ensemble.

All I know is, my Omnisphere is complete. My Massive is complete. My Zebra 2 is complete. And so on. So what synth VSTs can be expanded upon outside of just buying a 3rd party patch library?

You find this model most in IOS Apps where you can purchase the Full Version as upgrade

[whyterabbyt]

Could you name some examples so I know what you're talking about because all the synth VSTs that I have are all self contained except for 3rd party patch libraries.

Various versions of Wusikstation from about V3 onwards had an effects SDK. Their current 'modular' has an SDK for synth modules too, AFAIK.
And any sub/meta-host which hosts VST plugins is already in that ballpark. The basic mechanism is identical.

Maybe Rekator could be considered an exception as it's more a shell than anything else and can host just about any kind of ensemble.

No, Im talking about the capability of extending the engine, not what can be built with the engine.

All I know is, my Omnisphere is complete. My Massive is complete. My Zebra 2 is complete. And so on.

Its probably not wise to leverage 'that's all I know' into 'that's all there can be' as you have done.

[Tchandra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZveVshGzMGY

Thanks a lot Mister Miller !
The overall sound seems a bit "thin" but the reactor component seems a good way to overcome this...

Regarding the pricing, well you seem to argue about something which is not decided yet and you don't know exactly what they have in mind so... I don't think it is stupid to pay for what you want, I don't know... for example I am not interested by the video component...

[wagtunes]

Could you name some examples so I know what you're talking about because all the synth VSTs that I have are all self contained except for 3rd party patch libraries.

Various versions of Wusikstation from about V3 onwards had an effects SDK. Their current 'modular' has an SDK for synth modules too, AFAIK.
And any sub/meta-host which hosts VST plugins is already in that ballpark. The basic mechanism is identical.

Maybe Rekator could be considered an exception as it's more a shell than anything else and can host just about any kind of ensemble.

No, Im talking about the capability of extending the engine, not what can be built with the engine.

All I know is, my Omnisphere is complete. My Massive is complete. My Zebra 2 is complete. And so on.

Its probably not wise to leverage 'that's all I know' into 'that's all there can be' as you have done.

Well, I never said that's all that can be. I'm just trying to get a handle on what's "common practice" in the industry. I've purchased over 50 VSTs and have countless free ones. None of them have two versions where one is more expensive than the other with additional options. So while I never said this can't be a possibility, it certainly doesn't appear to be a common practice in the industry itself. And if that's the case, then maybe the model for Flexion (and we don't even know what that will be yet) isn't one that is, at least from a marketing standpoint, a good idea.

I don't know. Depends on exactly what it is you're getting for $X and what it is you're getting for $X + $Y.

I guess it will be interesting to see what they're going to do.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. Whatever the full blown product is (unless full blown just means more patches) I'll be getting it as long as it runs on my PC without crashing every 5 minutes like some plugs do.

[foosnark]

I've purchased over 50 VSTs and have countless free ones. None of them have two versions where one is more expensive than the other with additional options.

The model where a basic version is free but a pro/extended/premium/whatever version exists isn't uncommon.

And having multiple price levels with different feature sets isn't unknown among hosts (FL Studio), collections (Komplete), post-production tools (iZotope RX), etc. There are also plenty of examples where the developer also sells preset packs for their own synths.

So really, it depends on the actual price and the features. I agree that rushing to judgement doesn't make sense.

[wagtunes]

I've purchased over 50 VSTs and have countless free ones. None of them have two versions where one is more expensive than the other with additional options.

The model where a basic version is free but a pro/extended/premium/whatever version exists isn't uncommon.

And having multiple price levels with different feature sets isn't unknown among hosts (FL Studio), collections (Komplete), post-production tools (iZotope RX), etc. There are also plenty of examples where the developer also sells preset packs for their own synths.

So really, it depends on the actual price and the features. I agree that rushing to judgement doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I know that there are free versions of synths (Latte, Zebralette, etc.) and premium versions. But I've never heard of Synth X is $39 and Synth X plus whatever is $59. Yes, when I got my Synthmaster, there was an option of getting it as just the synth with the factory patches or getting it with all these other libraries that, purchased separately, would have been a lot more. But outside of additional patches I don't know any synths where the main functionality (again, unless there is a free version) isn't what you get regardless of what "upgrade" you purchase, which again, is usually just more patches.

That's why I'm looking for specific examples of synths where you can pay $X for Y functionality or $Z for Double Y functionality.

Can somebody give me such an example outside of free and premium?

[MillerSam]

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/audio-repair/rx/

Izotope RX and Izotope RX Advanced (has more features)

[whyterabbyt]

Well, I never said that's all that can be.

Erm, yes you did. And its exactly what I was addressing in the first place...

I know a little something about programs. The basic engine of the synth has to come complete, unless they're seriously making a cut down version.

I'm just trying to get a handle on what's "common practice" in the industry.

That would have been predicated with a question, then, not a statement based on your alleged authority. You're just being disingenuous now, bordering on basic dishonesty.

I've purchased over 50 VSTs and have countless free ones.

None of them have two versions where one is more expensive than the other with additional options
. So while I never said this can't be a possibility, it certainly doesn't appear to be a common practice in the industry itself.

No-one said it was common, but you did claim that the engine 'has to be complete', which is untrue. Quit the back-pedalling and goalpost-moving, mmm'kay?

[wagtunes]

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/audio-repair/rx/

Izotope RX and Izotope RX Advanced (has more features)

Great. It's not a synth. Can you give me a synth that has this model?

I don't know any. And Komplete isn't a synth. It's a package of synths. The Massive, FM8 and ABsynth5 that you get with Komplete are the same synths that you get if you purchased them separately. You're saving money by getting a package deal (assuming you wanted all those synths in the first place) but you're not getting "more synth" for each synth you're getting.

And yes, a lot of audio tools have basic and pro versions. Been this way since I can remember. But synths? Can't think of one in the VST world. Hardware? Sure. Modular stuff is like that. Even the old Oberheim stuff was like that depending on how many voices you wanted. But VSTs? Again, can't think of one.

[whyterabbyt]

That's why I'm looking for specific examples of synths where you can pay $X for Y functionality or $Z for Double Y functionality.

Can somebody give me such an example outside of free and premium?

Why are you suddenly 'looking for specific examples?'
Are you trying to pretend that if there are no examples, then it cant possibly be implemented?

Or are you trying to imply specific something about this synth based on those examples?

Or are you just trying to handwave away your mistake when you said plugins 'had to be complete?'

[wagtunes]

Well, I never said that's all that can be.

Erm, yes you did. And its exactly what I was addressing in the first place...

I know a little something about programs. The basic engine of the synth has to come complete, unless they're seriously making a cut down version.

I'm just trying to get a handle on what's "common practice" in the industry.

That would have been predicated with a question, then, not a statement based on your alleged authority. You're just being disingenuous now, bordering on basic dishonesty.

I've purchased over 50 VSTs and have countless free ones.

None of them have two versions where one is more expensive than the other with additional options
. So while I never said this can't be a possibility, it certainly doesn't appear to be a common practice in the industry itself.

No-one said it was common, but you did claim that the engine 'has to be complete', which is untrue. Quit the back-pedalling and goalpost-moving, mmm'kay?

Fine, it doesn't HAVE to be complete. To the best of MY knowledge, I've never known one rational company to make two versions of a synth at the same time, one for price X and one for price Y with additional functionality outside of a possible free stripped down version (which is what I said in my initial post) and a paid for version.

Two paid versions? With different functionality?

Please show me who.

[whyterabbyt]

Fine, it doesn't HAVE to be complete. To the best of MY knowledge, I've never known one rational company to make two versions of a synth at the same time, one for price X and one for price Y with additional functionality outside of a possible free stripped down version (which is what I said in my initial post) and a paid for version.

Two paid versions? With different functionality?

Please show me who.

[MillerSam]

http://audulus.com/

Audulus for Windows has a basic version for 29.45 but you can buy functions as in app purchase. For limited time all in app purchases are for free.

[wagtunes]

That's why I'm looking for specific examples of synths where you can pay $X for Y functionality or $Z for Double Y functionality.

Can somebody give me such an example outside of free and premium?

Why are you suddenly 'looking for specific examples?'
Are you trying to pretend that if there are no examples, then it cant possibly be implemented?

Or are you trying to imply specific something about this synth based on those examples?

Or are you just trying to handwave away your mistake when you said plugins 'had to be complete?'

Because the implication made about Flexion was that there was going to be different options for the purchase.

Outside of possibly buying one version with no patches or only a few patches and another option of buying with many additional patches, i can't see what any difference can be.

If the company does in fact offer different versions, one a cut down and one full featured, then I think they're stark raving mad. And when I say full featured I don't mean because they give me a gazillion patches. I mean because synth X can't do as much as synth Y. That, to me, is unheard of unless synth X is free.

So again, if somebody can show me a synth where synth X is not free and costs less than synth Y because synth Y can do more, I'll shut up.

And no, I'm not back peddling. Maybe I didn't express myself properly in my initial post. So I am clarifying what I meant now as best as I can.

Now that I have clarified, and explained why I am curious, can somebody please give me an example. Any example of a synth, not an audio processing tool, which is very common to have basic and pro versions.

[wagtunes]

http://audulus.com/

Audulus for Windows has a basic version for 29.45 but you can buy functions as in app purchase. For limited time all in app purchases are for free.

Thank you! Yes, now we're getting somewhere. Modular stuff WILL be like this, though this is the only one I'm aware of and completely forgot about it because I'm not particularly interested in this product. But yes, this is a perfect example.

If the Flexion guys do something like this, unless it's some really amazing add ons, I would be very disappointed.