VA Vs A

[ghettosynth]

But really, I would prefer a Rhodes piano to any hardware synth

This I can understand - on my wish list of dream kit too

Was playing that legacy Lounge Lizard Session plugin today, it is not bad for the money (20 bucks), but just doesn't give me goosebumps the way the real Rhodes sound does

Agreed, I thought the Neo-soul suitcase was alright, as was the scarbee one, but your right - no goosebumps here either.

We'd best get back on topic before gettosynth notices our thread departures..

Well, I noticed already. So let's bring this around to the point. It IS all about goosebumps. With pianos, however, it's extremely challenging to determine whether those goosebumps come from the actual sound and feel, or an internal bias for the real thing. Do not underestimate that bias, it's real, and it's quite powerful.

In short, what we see changes what we hear.

So, to test a rhodes, you'd have to put the VA inside a rhodes case and mechanism. But then, even the feel of the hammer striking the tines and the un-amplified sound of the times could sway your perception. Basically, you have to believe that you're playing the real thing, or, said differently, not know that you aren't.

That is the essence of my point. To truly test whether a subject can hear the difference, you must eliminate biases introduced by other senses, particularly sight. Further, to truly test the difference, you must give the subject ALL of the interface provided by the instrument.

[fluffy_little_something]

Yes, the mind likes to play tricks on us Somehow the whole package matters, in this case that bulky black piano which you have seen on so many stages and heard on so many records before.

The emulation I have does sound good, actually, but there is no way to change velocity sensitivity, so I would have to hit my keyboard so hard that I am afraid it would break in the long run

In the mix I might not really notice the difference, who knows...

[fmr]

You've been droning on about obvious things that all of us understand, e.g: that a piano has pedals that control real time expression, and yet you fail to grok the shared point of view.

If you do, you don't sound like to.

As far as two hands, do you really think that anyone here needs a reminder of this simple limitation? You vastly underestimate the friction that interface has in real time performance when it extends beyond keyboard and pedals. I think that it's because that isn't a part of your performance experience. In any case, you cannot play an envelope or a filter on a DX, or a piano <insert eyeroll here> in the same way that you can on many, if not most, analog synthesizers. It is not automatically an equivalency in expression to move one hand from the keyboard to the knobs.

This coming from the guy that is annoyed about me stating the obvious No, you cannot. You do that differently, but you still do it - that's the point you (apparently) fail to understand.

The bottom line is that I am talking about how you cannot limit the usable interface of a synthesizer, as an instrument, to the keys and pedals. That is not an invitation to reach for your grammar school teaching voice to tell us all about the infinite possibilities of the piano.

Likewise, you are missing the plot too. Judging from what you wrote, you didn't understood a single word of what I'm talking about. Anyway, have a good day (or night, whatever).

[pdxindy]

In many ways I think that the difference in the sound generated by a Softsynth or Analogue Synth is not the most important aspect. They can both be made to sound pretty darn close to each other and even if you dispute that, some certainly will, they both are capable of sounding equally amazing and awful.

For a terrible sounding analogue synth look no further than the Timbre Wolf...

For fantastic sounding softies there is Lush101, Diva ect...

One factor for me is the inexplicable connection you feel with your hardware instruments - It may be silly but they feel like they each have an individual "persona" and uniqueness. I feel an attachment to them which I don't have with Software.

You are partly describing the difference between hardware and software. A hardware VA has the some of the same hands-on characteristics you are talking about.

So I agree that being able to just turn my Analog Keys on and play is an enjoyable attribute.

However, for me, it is also very much the sound. Take any fairly static sound from an analogue and it can be reasonably duplicated by VA (hardware or software VA). But that just does not address at all, the difference when actually playing/tweaking it.

For example, take a sync lead I made last night on my AK - The joystick on the AK controls Modwheel and Pitch and Modwheel is set to mod some resonance and pitch of one Osc. Play a high note and add some modwheel on the joystick and it starts to scream. A little bit more modwheel, and the filter also gives this lovely little thwump when it jumps from note to note (legato patch). There's an effortless variability there that surprises and pleases in the playing of it. It is the nature of analogue (whether synth or saxophone)

I enjoy making presets on softsynths and adding various subtle modulations to create that sort of variability, but it is still not the same. It is still, in the end, a set of 1's and 0's.

The lenses on my camera, when you manual focus, sends a signal to the motor to change focus. It is not a direct mechanical system. It works well enough, but it just does not feel the same or have that immediate sense of connected interaction like a mechanical system. Nobody is going to know when they look at the photo, but I know in the using of it.

Unlike the photo, analogue sound still has audible differences depending on the situation, but in many cases, a listener will not know, but me the person playing does.

Today, there are lots of people who produce music more than play it. Digital is for producing, analogue is for playing.

[fluffy_little_something]

For example, take a sync lead I made last night on my AK - The joystick on the AK controls Modwheel and Pitch and Modwheel is set to mod some resonance and pitch of one Osc. Play a high note and add some modwheel on the joystick and it starts to scream. A little bit more modwheel, and the filter also gives this lovely little thwump when it jumps from note to note (legato patch). There's an effortless variability there that surprises and pleases in the playing of it. It is the nature of analogue (whether synth or saxophone)

That begs for an audio

[ghettosynth]

In any case, you cannot play an envelope or a filter on a DX, or a piano <insert eyeroll here> in the same way that you can on many, if not most, analog synthesizers. It is not automatically an equivalency in expression to move one hand from the keyboard to the knobs.

This coming from the guy that is annoyed about me stating the obvious No, you cannot. You do that differently, but you still do it - that's the point you (apparently) fail to understand.

Read what other people say before you start believing that you have something to teach. Your points are simple, no trivial, and miss the general theme of this thread completely.

[pdxindy]

I could not imagine spending a single cent on a hardware MONO synth.

I can understand that when you think Sylenth sounds the same as a good analogue monosynth

[Kriminal]

As there have been a ton of these threads, can 'we' not just collect the general consensus from all those, post them here, and lock the thread?

Seems a bit pointless pontificating the same old 'facts'....

[ghettosynth]

I could not imagine spending a single cent on a hardware MONO synth.

I can understand that when you think Sylenth sounds the same as a good analogue monosynth

That's funny right there. A few (well a bit more than a few really) years ago when I was thinning out my analog collection it was the mono synths that I felt were more valuable to me. The main reason is that there is much more diversity in architecture than there is in polys. Economics forces compromises in polysynths and in the 80s that meant using chips for the analog modules. If you were a big company like Roland, Yamaha, or Korg, you could make your own chips, everyone else used what was commonly available. So even though architectures varied (somewhat) at a high level, there were many many many copies of synths that used essentially the same oscillators and filters. It became much worse as the industry converged on the DCO as the basic oscillator module for consumer level synths.

Towards the end of the 80s there were far too many variants of the two DCO/DO CEM synth on a chip based polys. This chip is basically what ended up in most of Dave Smith's current synths and why I dislike all but the most recent products from him.

Today, nobody is really producing those chips and as a result, we are seeing some interesting new designs but they are slow in coming because you can't just choose a few chips (along with reference design) from CEM, glue them together with basic op amps and a microprocessor, and call it a synth.

[ghettosynth]

As there have been a ton of these threads, can 'we' not just collect the general consensus from all those, post them here, and lock the thread?

Seems a bit pointless pontificating the same old 'facts'....

Locking threads is so last century.

[fluffy_little_something]

I could not imagine spending a single cent on a hardware MONO synth.

I can understand that when you think Sylenth sounds the same as a good analogue monosynth

Indeed, it can sound like a Minimoog, yes. I grew up listening to R&B, where such synths were used all the time, so I know what I am looking for. Of course it doesn't sound 100% the same and I think it can't do certain sync stuff, but what it can do is similar enough for me in the mix alongside a dozen other tracks. I am curious about the new version that is to be released, it said in another thread that they tightened the sound, whatever that means

Look, nobody is saying that a plugin sounds just like hardware, but the little extra in sound that I get is not worth the additional 4-digit amount of cash I would have to pay.
It's like with watches: I am sure a Rolex is a tiny bit more precise than my 100-dollar Citizen solar watch, but is that worth the thousands of extra dollars?

[ghettosynth]

I could not imagine spending a single cent on a hardware MONO synth.

I can understand that when you think Sylenth sounds the same as a good analogue monosynth

Indeed, it can sound like a Minimoog, yes. I grew up listening to R&B, where such synths were used all the time, so I know what I am looking for. Of course it doesn't sound 100% the same and I think it can't do certain sync stuff, but what it can do is similar enough for me in the mix alongside a dozen other tracks. I am curious about the new version that is to be released, it said in another thread that they tightened the sound, whatever that means

Look, nobody is saying that a plugin sounds just like hardware, but the little extra in sound that I get is not worth the additional 4-digit amount of cash I would have to pay.
It's like with watches: I am sure a Rolex is a tiny bit more precise than my 100-dollar Citizen solar watch, but is that worth the thousands of extra dollars?

So, to my ears, Sylenth is a synth that does not sound close at all. You can really hear the limitations in the filter, in particular.

[fluffy_little_something]

I don't like the 12db filter, but the 24db one sounds good to me.
I don't know which limitations you mean, maybe lots of modulation and high resonance? Maybe, I don't know because I don't do that, anyway. I guess that is where 0df filters come in handy, which Sylenth does not have I assume.

[ghettosynth]

I don't like the 12db filter, but the 24db one sounds good to me.
I don't know which limitations you mean, maybe lots of modulation and high resonance? Maybe, I don't know because I don't do that, anyway. I guess that is where 0df filters come in handy, which Sylenth does not have I assume.

Yeah, see, that's why it sounds good to you. Do you have a real 24 dB analog filter to compare it with? The Sylenth filter does not sound good when pushed or modulated hard.

[fluffy_little_something]

No, I don't have any hardware synth anymore, so I can't compare filters.
If I did extreme things I would hear the difference as well I suppose, but that whole acidic 303 type of sound has always pissed me off, so I could not care less how Sylenth sounds when pushed to the limit.
I am happy Sylenth is somewhere in the middle, it can do the analog-type sounds I need, but also smooth, somewhat digital pads which analog synths aren't that good for.

Anyway, Sylenth is not exactly the latest or best plugin, so it is a bit unfair to use it in order to prove anything