U-he's Presswerk or The Glue?

[jens]

Can honestly say I don't see/read it as you do.

Unless maybe in my mind I was doing the same thing to you. Because when I read the three companies you mentioned, my first immediate thought was how do you know how successful they are? Based on KVR positive posts or ?

rsp

Urs' original theory - or shall I not rather say "claim"? - wasn't about business figures at all - let's have a look at it again:

"What people really want is an expensive plug-in for less money. A plug-in that's priced 200+ and bought for, say, 99 gets much more attention than a plug-in that is always priced 99. So the ideal plug-in is one that is priced very high and that's always on sale for half the price."

so most obviously, when I used the term "success", I did not necessarily refer to monetary success. I used the term a lot more loosely. However I used it adequately enough to counter Urs' claim, which is a complete sweeping generalization itself, free of any supporting data.
"What people really want" - sentences do not come broader than that.
My argument was of course, that if this was generally true, Valhalla etc. would not be rated/valued highly by "people" at all, because - following the logic of Urs' claim - "people" would consider a 50 dollar plugin signficantly less valuable as one which normally costs 100 bucks. Look around here, at Gearslutz and elsewhere: Valhalla, Klanghelm and Sknote get praised a lot by a lot of "people". So these "people" obviously value a plugin's quality independent of its price tag.

Urs' theory might of course apply to certain customers - I find it very believable - but that doesn't make is generally valid or applicable. To what percentage of potential customers Urs' "people" applies, of course none of us can say without conducting or reviewing respective market research. However it was Urs who stated an unproven generalization first - and then he tried to completely dismiss my counter-argument by claiming I would have to provide numbers first - which is what I called "having a cheek" - and I stand by it.

[jens]

Hm jens, a little extra sensitive today?

U-he didnt claim that people want expensive plugins cheap is THE ONLY way a business works.

No, he only claimed that's the only thing "people want".

[jrides]

I have exactly the same question as the OP. I have a set of basic clean compression tools, a decent mastering compressor (PSP Mastercomp) and want to get a “character” compressor mainly for drum bus. I did some quick tests of Glue and Presswerk on my drumbeats and also on some synths and liked them both with no particular preference, but I guess I’m not qualified enough to spot certain subtle but important differences people are talking about here.

I understand, that there may be better options for “coloured” compressor, but since I don’t have an UAD card, am donglephobic, have issues with Waves protection system and cannot currently spend more than USD 100 for a compressor, most of the other stuff mentioned in this thread is ruled out for me.

Within your budget there are quite a number of options for comps with a distinct sound, whichddon't require a dongles or UAD card. Depends on the sound you want. Some of the companies do not have the advertising budget that others have. But some actually do. I'm surprised that you only seem to feel there are not many options.

I narrowed my choice to these two because the Glue (along with Slate's VBC) is often mentioned as the best analogue-modelled compressor, while Prewserk is made by U-he who also made Satin, which I have and like very much .

Which other options are there in my price range ? I understand that in order to get this IK compressor for 99 USD I have to buy something else from them at the same time?

It all depends on the sound you are looking for really. I like the IK Bus Compressor over The Glue for my SSL needs. Other IK stuff I like a lot on drums include British Channel and White Channel. Anywhere you would use an 1176 on drums I use the Black76 (which isn’t very often for the stuff I do), I used to use Stillwell The Rocket for this sound. Either is a good choice for that sound. I was using the SKnote c165a, yesterday. I own hardware DBX comps and this gives me some of that vibe ITB. I also use NI VC160. Overtone DSP DYN4000 is modeled after the same SSL channel strip as the IK White Channel. The freebie NI Supercharger gets used on drums. I don’t think it’s modeled after any particular analog gear, but I certainly don’t care. I will stop there with freebies, that’s Pandora’s box.

As far as the IK deal goes, its buy one get one free. So for instance if you by the Bus Comp (The Glue) , you can choose another plug of the same value for free. If enough people participate, you will be able to choose up to 4 plugs free. If I was considering The Glue I would definitely demo the IK version of this type of emulation, given the present deal. Because demo and like it same as the glue, you also get at least 1 more plug for that price. If you don’t like it any of them then you buy what your ears tell you to buy.

[whyterabbyt]

Hm jens, a little extra sensitive today?

U-he didnt claim that people want expensive plugins cheap is THE ONLY way a business works.

No, he only claimed that's the only thing "people want".

No, he didnt. He said 'what they really want', which cannot be correctly interpreted the way you claim.

"John really likes ice cream" does not mean "John only likes ice cream."

It either means "John genuinely likes ice cream" or "John likes ice cream a lot"

[jens]

Hm jens, a little extra sensitive today?

U-he didnt claim that people want expensive plugins cheap is THE ONLY way a business works.

No, he only claimed that's the only thing "people want".

No, he didnt. He said 'what they really want', which cannot be correctly interpreted the way you claim.

"John really likes ice cream" does not mean "John only likes ice cream."

It either means "John genuinely likes ice cream" or "John likes ice cream a lot"

Thanks for this basic lecture on logic - now let me return the favour.

You need to read his whole statement, i.e. every sentence which belongs to his core argument:

"What people really want is an expensive plug-in for less money. A plug-in that's priced 200+ and bought for, say, 99 gets much more attention than a plug-in that is always priced 99. So the ideal plug-in is one that is priced very high and that's always on sale for half the price."

Look at the sentence I highlighted. This makes only sense under the premise that "what people want" applies to everyone or at least the majority of "people". Imagine 50% of people falling for this proposed sales technique (i.e. a plugin which is "always on sale for half the price")
and the other 50% being so appalled by it that they won't ever buy from this company - would his claim "the ideal plug-in is one that is priced very high and that's always on sale for half the price" then be valid?

[ImNotDedYet]

I have exactly the same question as the OP. I have a set of basic clean compression tools, a decent mastering compressor (PSP Mastercomp) and want to get a “character” compressor mainly for drum bus. I did some quick tests of Glue and Presswerk on my drumbeats and also on some synths and liked them both with no particular preference, but I guess I’m not qualified enough to spot certain subtle but important differences people are talking about here.

I understand, that there may be better options for “coloured” compressor, but since I don’t have an UAD card, am donglephobic, have issues with Waves protection system and cannot currently spend more than USD 100 for a compressor, most of the other stuff mentioned in this thread is ruled out for me.

Within your budget there are quite a number of options for comps with a distinct sound, whichddon't require a dongles or UAD card. Depends on the sound you want. Some of the companies do not have the advertising budget that others have. But some actually do. I'm surprised that you only seem to feel there are not many options.

I narrowed my choice to these two because the Glue (along with Slate's VBC) is often mentioned as the best analogue-modelled compressor, while Prewserk is made by U-he who also made Satin, which I have and like very much .

Which other options are there in my price range ? I understand that in order to get this IK compressor for 99 USD I have to buy something else from them at the same time?

If you're looking for analog-modeled compressors, check out some of the IK Multimeida stuff, especially while they have this group buy thing. Also, I like some of Stillwell's offerings in the analog hardware-modeled area. You should be able to get all for < $100.

IMO, I think The Glue is a bit more specialized and useful on grouped tracks/busses whereas I think Presswerk could be used on both busses and individual tracks. So I think any kind of comparison, at least in my experience isn't really a fair comparison.

[masterhiggins]

A great majority aren't appalled by that statement because no one who uses that marketing technique will actually tell you what they're strategically doing. Waves isn't going to tell you that they never intend for people to pay full price for their plugins because it adds to perceived value. They're just going to tell you it's on sale for a great price because evidently not that many people can put 2 and 2 together.

-Sam

[Twrogstudio]

I imagine Urs is too busy banging his head up the wall to answer at the moment

[jens]

A great majority aren't appalled by that statement because no one who uses that marketing technique will actually tell you what they're strategically doing. Waves isn't going to tell you that they never intend for people to pay full price for their plugins because it adds to perceived value. They're just going to tell you it's on sale for a great price because evidently not that many people can put 2 and 2 together.

-Sam

Your own theory still doesn't change anything about the fact that according to its inner logic, Urs' claim neccessarily lumps in at least the majority of potential customers in when he mentions "people".

[VitaminD]

Why do some people come here simply to be argumentative and the they are given the time of day with their failed argumentative logic.

[whyterabbyt]

You need to read his whole statement, i.e. every sentence which belongs to his core argument:

"What people really want is an expensive plug-in for less money. A plug-in that's priced 200+ and bought for, say, 99 gets much more attention than a plug-in that is always priced 99. So the ideal plug-in is one that is priced very high and that's always on sale for half the price."

Look at the sentence I highlighted.
This makes only sense under the premise that "what people want" applies to everyone or at least the majority of "people".

Firstly 'people' in this context is indefinite, it has no specific absolute or relative size/size range. Are you assuming he means 'all people' or 'most people', rather than 'some people'?

Are you denying that what <some people> want is an expensive plugin for less money? Or just that the number of people you've assumed that he means is less than the number of people you've assumed there are?

Secondly, do you know who he's saying its ideal for. On my reading it can either be 'for people' or 'for developers who want to sell to people'. Which one have you assumed he meant?

Thirdly, why does it only make sense under 'the premise that "what people want" applies to everyone or at least the majority of "people"?'

If it only applies to a minority of people, but that minority of people constitutes enough sales for the proposition to be successfully profitable, then it would still make sense.

I suspect there's enough assumption in there that your premise is basically-logically flawed, to be honest.

Imagine 50% of people falling for this proposed sales technique (i.e. a plugin which is "always on sale for half the price")
and the other 50% being so appalled by it that they won't ever buy from this company - would his claim "the ideal plug-in is one that is priced very high and that's always on sale for half the price" then be valid?

Sorry, is that the kind of thing you normally bring to a debate under the guise of 'basic logic?'

[jens]

If it only applies to a minority of people, but that minority of people constitutes enough sales for the proposition to be successfully profitable, then it would still make sense.

No, it would not. Define "profitable" in the context of Urs' claim.
"Profitable" would clearly mean selling more plugins than without the sales-tactic.

Look again at the last bit you quoted and which you dismissed so quickly.

[fese]

...
As a European company with built-in business ethics we have to find a sweet spot between "expensive enough to be considered pro" and "affordable". At the moment we think that 129$ is that sweet spot even though I have a vague feeling that it may be a tad too cheap.

I'll say as an aside that the u-he plugins are all appropriately priced compared to competing products with similar feature sets. They have a reputation of being "expensive" it seems but I dunno, seems about right to me.

Especially when you consider the intro prices during the public beta phases and some time afterwards. This is usually a period of several weeks, even months, where you can get them "on sale".
Also, u-he plugins have a above average resale value, most likely because of the quality but also because they don't do so many sales that nobody is sure what the product is worth anyway.
With u-he stuff, you know what you get and I find the absence of overhyped marketing and their "business ethics" very agreeable.

Back to topic: I don't think you really can compare the glue and presswerk (or "press week" as my iPad spell correction likes to name it), they are quite different beasts, I mean, just looking at the amount of controls on each one should tell you that...

[Kriminal]

Is u-he making ice cream now?

[Ghostwave]

Is u-he making ice cream now?

Nah, coding. Much wiser to spend his time this way than to feed this thread.