Propellerhead Rack Extensions ARE Transferrable

[KarmaShaman]

Despite the legion of Propellerhead devotees blurting out the same second hand hearsay rather than do their own investigation, we need to make clarification for those who wish to go beyond the words of a few cult members who misleadingly speak with the lofty sense of their own self-worth.

The End User License Agreement which so many refer to, yet have unlikely actually read, makes no specific definition that Propellerhead Rack Extensions cannot be sold or transferred.

Allow me to bring attention to EULA for Propellerhead software:

3.Transfer. You may not rent, lease, or sublicense the Software. You may, however, transfer all your rights to use the Software to another person or entity, provided that you transfer this Agreement with the Software.

This specifically grants the licensed owner of Propellerhead Rack Extensions the ability to sell them.

On the other hand, THIRD PARTY are in fact restricted for sale, under the Third Party End User License Agreement, a document unrelated to the general EULA, and states:

3.No transfer. You may not transfer, rent, lease, or sublicense the Software.

However, this is contradicted in the following clause:

7.1 Certain Products available through the Services are developed by third parties and contain third party terms and conditions that govern your use of such Products (“Third Party Terms”). For Rack Extension Products such Third Party Terms can be found here. Any dealings between you and such third party are solely between you and the third party. Propellerhead is not responsible or liable for any aspects of such dealings.

Therefore, should a third-party developer agree to the end user's request to transfer the license, then this is acceptable under the Third Party EULA, and Propellerhead is not responsible for any aspect of such dealings.

Bear in mind also, that if your country of origin clearly stipulates consumer rights in regards to ownership of goods & services (in this case, the ownership of a license - not the ownership of the software), then Swedish law does not apply to Third Party Rack Extensions. If anyone wishes to sell their third party RE license, and are in the same country as the developer, I urge you to refer to the following clause in the Third-Party EULA:

Place of jurisdiction is location of the Developer. The Developer, however, at its discretion, shall also be entitled to initiate legal proceedings in the jurisdiction where you are domiciled/have your registered address.

I therefore urge anyone who wishes to sell their Reason License to:

A) Be rightfully informed of the EULA concerning Propellerhead Rack Extensions, and;

B) Contact the developer of Third-Party Rack Extensions to seek permission to onsell their product.

Propellerhead are obliged to adhere to the terms of their own agreement, and facilitate the transaction upon agreement of the third party developer.

Until, of course, they are made aware of this thread, at which time they will no doubt update the terms of service, in order to protect their profits at the expense of the end user.

I suggest that the page be saved off-site for future reference.

https://www.propellerheads.se/agreements/

[KarmaShaman]

Allow me to bring the readers' attention to a precedence, against software giant Oracle.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012 ... -software/

Oracle's net income is over 3.5 BILLION dollars, and they clearly have the financial backing to launch a lengthy court proceeding - despite this, their defense was overturned.

While the particulars of this ruling are slightly different in form to Propellerhead's mode of distribution, I urge people to contact their local Fair Trading Commission if in the EU, in order to facilitate the sale of your license(s).

Those in Australia - I have previously been advised that a matter of fraud through deception had in fact been perpetrated, but they have no jurisdiction in Europe.

Therefore the precedent cited above is relevant for EU inhabitants.

Post #1 is relevant globally.

[Mushy Mushy]

Ok well start suing then.

After you've spent several tens of thousands in legal fees you might actually just think it would have been cheaper to simply forgo the $/£XX valued software.

[kmonkey]

Ok well start suing then.

After you've spent several tens of thousands in legal fees you might actually just think it would have been cheaper to simply forgo the $/£XX valued software.

It's interesting topic none the less.

So if it is defined by EULA that one can sell-resell - how it is that this isn't possible?

MAybe it's up to developer of RE not the Propellerhead itself..

[Mushy Mushy]

Ok well start suing then.

After you've spent several tens of thousands in legal fees you might actually just think it would have been cheaper to simply forgo the $/£XX valued software.

It's interesting topic none the less.

So if it is defined by EULA that one can sell-resell - how it is that this isn't possible?

MAybe it's up to developer of RE not the Propellerhead itself..

Ok so maybe my tone was inappropriate. For that I apologise.

This discussion has been had before, and the only way for it to move forward is for somebody to challenge in court.

And for the sake of tiny tiny valued software, who's going to do that?

So yes, very interesting indeed. But nothing's going to come of it unfortunately.

[KarmaShaman]

And for the sake of tiny tiny valued software, who's going to do that?

This single sentence defines what's wrong with the world today. This whole 'don't challenge, it's all too hard' attitude is what allows corporations and governments to exploit the common person. What's worse is that the culture we exist in gives rise to those who demand that the facts be suppressed, by socially persecuting those who speak out.

The point of the thread is to educate people, and pay no heed to the many 'experts' who will wax lyrical about Propellerhead's terms of service, without ever familiarizing themselves with said terms. There is no 'suing' involved (seriously... too much American TV). The terms are clearly stated. If in fact they are in breach of these terms by actually stating to an end user that they cannot sell their Propellerhead RE's, it's a consumer law matter, and would not even require court intervention.

Nothing's going to come of it you say. Quite a defeatist attitude.

Watch this space. Or better yet, watch the EULA change over the coming weeks.

[Mushy Mushy]

And for the sake of tiny tiny valued software, who's going to do that?

This single sentence defines what's wrong with the world today. This whole 'don't challenge, it's all too hard' attitude is what allows corporations and governments to exploit the common person. What's worse is that the culture we exist in gives rise to those who demand that the facts be suppressed, by socially persecuting those who speak out.

The point of the thread is to educate people, and pay no heed to the many 'experts' who will wax lyrical about Propellerhead's terms of service, without ever familiarizing themselves with said terms. There is no 'suing; involved (seriously... too much American TV). The terms are clearly stated. If in fact they are in breach of these terms buy actually stating to an end user that they cannot sell their Propellerhead RE's, it's a consumer law matter, and would not even require court intervention.

Nothing's going to come of it you say. Quite a defeatist attitude.

Watch this space. Or better yet, watch the EULA change over the coming weeks.

A defeatist is vastly different to a realist.

Tell me then, what's your possible legal budget? And then make an estimate on what the Prop's would have at their disposal.

Watch this space? Ha, I will. With much amusement.

Also, you may wish to read this thread.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&t=414167

[kmonkey]

And for the sake of tiny tiny valued software, who's going to do that?

This single sentence defines what's wrong with the world today. This whole 'don't challenge, it's all too hard' attitude is what allows corporations and governments to exploit the common person. What's worse is that the culture we exist in gives rise to those who demand that the facts be suppressed, by socially persecuting those who speak out.

The point of the thread is to educate people, and pay no heed to the many 'experts' who will wax lyrical about Propellerhead's terms of service, without ever familiarizing themselves with said terms. There is no 'suing; involved (seriously... too much American TV). The terms are clearly stated. If in fact they are in breach of these terms buy actually stating to an end user that they cannot sell their Propellerhead RE's, it's a consumer law matter, and would not even require court intervention.

Nothing's going to come of it you say. Quite a defeatist attitude.

Watch this space. Or better yet, watch the EULA change over the coming weeks.

A defeatist is vastly different to a realist.

Tell me then, what's your possible legal budget? And then make an estimate on what the Prop's would have at their disposal.

Watch this space? Ha, I will. With much amusement.

Tell me what kind of person you are: Is for you a glass of water half empty or half full?

If you have no interest and you think this thread is worthless why are you wasting your time? It seems to me that this discussion annoy you

[KarmaShaman]

Tell me then, what's your possible legal budget?

I have little patience for ill-informed backspeak. This will be the last post in this thread in which I will be addressing you.

Consumer Law requires no court proceedings nor a 'legal budget' to commence.

[KarmaShaman]

If you have no interest and you think this thread is worthless why are you wasting your time? It seems to me that this discussion annoy you

I'm wondering the same. He/she certainly has no concept of consumer rights.

[Mushy Mushy]

Tell me what kind of person you are: Is for you a glass of water half empty or half full?

If you have no interest and you think this thread is worthless why are you wasting your time? It seems to me that this discussion annoy you

Personally it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I was just pointing out this conversation has been had numerous times before on numerous forums, and I fail to see how the OP is different from any of the previous petitioners.

Maybe he/she is. We'll see. Good luck

[Mushy Mushy]

If you have no interest and you think this thread is worthless why are you wasting your time? It seems to me that this discussion annoy you

I'm wondering the same. He/she certainly has no concept of consumer rights.

I don't really have a need. I'm not stupid enough to purchase something before researching it beforehand.

[solar28]

Awesome observation. Propellerheads has said Rack Extensions aren't transferable. But that Eula seems pretty clear. Not only that but there are certain EU restrictions on policies like that. I would hope it wouldn't go to court. I would think even if they changed the Eula software RE's bought before could still be resold; provided a third party agreed to it.

As an aside, thanks for not accepting a defeatist position. I realize I get that way sometimes. Good to always believe one's efforts aren't a waste of time.

[KarmaShaman]

If you have no interest and you think this thread is worthless why are you wasting your time? It seems to me that this discussion annoy you

I'm wondering the same. He/she certainly has no concept of consumer rights.

I don't really have a need. I'm not stupid enough to purchase something before researching it beforehand.

*sigh* Ok, if you insist on playing, then let's boogie.

Please share your wisdom with the stupid people you make reference to as to WHERE you researched the terms of service?

Where is the legal copy that states that Propellerhead RE's are not transferrable?

Is there an EULA in existence other than the one I quoted from above? That was from the company's website, up to date as at approx 2 hours ago.

Please, oh please, show the readership how you're 'not stupid enough'....

[Mushy Mushy]

*sigh* Ok, if you insist on playing, then let's boogie.

Please share your wisdom with the stupid people you make reference to as to WHERE you researched the terms of service?

Where is the legal copy that states that Propellerhead RE's are not transferrable?

Is there an EULA in existence other than the one I quoted from above? That was from the company's website, up to date as at approx 2 hours ago.

Please, oh please, show the readership how you're 'not stupid enough'....

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=352278
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5910888
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ?p=1142137
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/sho ... ?p=1215911

Bored now.