---

[Gonga]

I agree that Win10 is heading in basically the same direction as Win8. I think to the extent it's the same direction (unified code base) I think it's a wise move. And to the extent it is NOT the same direction (Start button) that's also a good thing. I don't think move to unify the code base is what killed Win8. What killed Win8 was the Applesque "strong-arm" approach of "our way or the highway" regarding the Start button, etc. Power desktop users NEED extreme customizability in the GUI. Case in point: watch Windows 10. If Win8 were set up like Win10 with a Start button, and gave all the power of customization to the desktop user as Windows always has, Win8 would have been a success imo.

Apple is a great company that exists partly because it doesn't try to be MS (everything to everybody). MS is a great company that has had success largely because it isn't an Apple (top-notch products that are not as widely adapted nor adaptable).

MS needs to find it's own way without trying to be Apple. I think Win10 is a move in the right direction.

[Burillo]

i wouldn't say unifying code across all platforms is a good thing. whichever way you put it, desktop software has very different mode of interaction than phone or tablet software. Tablet or phone software at least partly overlap and Google was able to leverage that with its Fragments (or whatever it's called) API, but desktop software is a whole different league. IMO how Qt handled it is much better - a quick-to-write GUI for every platform, i.e. not trying to be everything at once but being the same at the core while having different faces for different places.

[fmr]

i wouldn't say unifying code across all platforms is a good thing. whichever way you put it, desktop software has very different mode of interaction than phone or tablet software. Tablet or phone software at least partly overlap and Google was able to leverage that with its Fragments (or whatever it's called) API, but desktop software is a whole different league. IMO how Qt handled it is much better - a quick-to-write GUI for every platform, i.e. not trying to be everything at once but being the same at the core while having different faces for different places.

For what I understood, the Windows that goes to smartphones and tablests is not the same Windows that will be on the desktop. There will be a common base, but the OS will somehow "detect" when it is running in a keybaord + mouse operation base, presenting a GUI according to that, and changing that GUII when it "detects" that it is running in a tactile operation base.

Regarding Apps, the ones that already exist (I am talking about the ones that come with Windows are much more oriented to tactile operation than keyboard + mouse. Current desktop software is not comfortable to operate in a tactile environment.

[Burillo]

For what I understood, the Windows that goes to smartphones and tablests is not the same Windows that will be on the desktop. There will be a common base, but the OS will somehow "detect" when it is running in a keybaord + mouse operation base, presenting a GUI according to that, and changing that GUII when it "detects" that it is running in a tactile operation base.

i sincerely hope they get this right, although i was under the impression that they wanted to do things similar to how Android does it, except extending the "adaptive" GUI to the desktop mode as well.

Regarding Apps, the ones that already exist (I am talking about the ones that come with Windows 8 ) are much more oriented to tactile operation than keyboard + mouse. Current desktop software is not comfortable to operate in a tactile environment.

converse is also true - touch software isn't really fun to use with a mouse and keyboard, case in point - recent Positive Grid BIAS beta (or was it released already?).

[sellyoursoul]

I agree about the privacy violation, but don't fool yourself - they're here to stay, and if something, it will get worse with time. So, we have one of two options: Learn to live with the conscience we may be exposed anytime, anywhere, and therefore adjusting our behaviour to that (I personally have no problems with that), or exile ourselves in a desert Island and learn to live out of palmtrees and coconuts.

I try to teach my children about these problems, risking to appear to them as na old paranoid guy, but that's all I can do. Hopefully, they listen to me, and avoid risky behaviours. Fortunately, AFAIK, the societies in Europe are not as paranoid as in USA, so citizens are not so scrutinized, but not long ago, we had a political situation in Portugal where expressing opinions was a risky business, and people lived with the for almost 50 years. That didn't stop people to have opinions, and express themselves.

I see it differently. Only if no one resists privacy violations, is it here to stay. Companies who are making money off of personal information will only stop doing so when it is no longer profitable, by way of the public seeing it as a bad thing (which it is) and by making collecting personal information too expensive an endeavor.

Yes, people change their behavior under the realization of surveillance, and I see that as being a bad thing for a number of reasons. The implications are far reaching, from personal views on the world to political actions. One point to be made on a big company, such as ms, collecting personal data is who that data is shared with. To glance at the bigger picture for a second, consider the current state of consumer culture and how we got here, and look at government lashes on political dissenters who are standing up for all things which make for a decent society. Surveillance of the public has enabled both, and it's a slippery slope (and a very real one).

[UltraJv]

I agree about the privacy violation, but don't fool yourself - they're here to stay, and if something, it will get worse with time. So, we have one of two options: Learn to live with the conscience we may be exposed anytime, anywhere, and therefore adjusting our behaviour to that (I personally have no problems with that), or exile ourselves in a desert Island and learn to live out of palmtrees and coconuts.

I try to teach my children about these problems, risking to appear to them as na old paranoid guy, but that's all I can do. Hopefully, they listen to me, and avoid risky behaviours. Fortunately, AFAIK, the societies in Europe are not as paranoid as in USA, so citizens are not so scrutinized, but not long ago, we had a political situation in Portugal where expressing opinions was a risky business, and people lived with the for almost 50 years. That didn't stop people to have opinions, and express themselves.

I see it differently. Only if no one resists privacy violations, is it here to stay. Companies who are making money off of personal information will only stop doing so when it is no longer profitable, by way of the public seeing it as a bad thing (which it is) and by making collecting personal information too expensive an endeavor.

Yes, people change their behavior under the realization of surveillance, and I see that as being a bad thing for a number of reasons. The implications are far reaching, from personal views on the world to political actions. One point to be made on a big company, such as ms, collecting personal data is who that data is shared with. To glance at the bigger picture for a second, consider the current state of consumer culture and how we got here, and look at government lashes on political dissenters who are standing up for all things which make for a decent society. Surveillance of the public has enabled both, and it's a slippery slope (and a very real one).

Its easy to avoid - opt out. Don't use any current OS. Your browser collects data (cookies). Facebook does, a lot of sites do. Ultimately - Youll end up in a bunker with no comms of any sort. Was that click on my phone the NSA? The bigger picture is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Way too much paranoia. If youre teaching your kids that, they will rebel.

Anyone using heavy encryption will get flagged as having something to hide. There are far more important things in life. Seriously, none of us have anything worth hiding unless your doing something seriously illegal.

Heres something to feed your paranoia - Linux - the source code is available for anyone to mess with. That makes it open to anyone to look at for security holes right? Has anyone? Have they put some backdoors/hack tools to be used against you in some distro instead? How would anyone know?

There are plenty of crazy presentations such as the one you posted (probably made by the NSA) by people who are looking to introduce FUD for their own means (PSY OPS). Its a rule by fear operation. That video is by Hope X - a bunch of hackers, you think the NSA arnt in on that? You have more to worry about with hackers attacking your PC and encrypting it, then selling you the unlock key for 100s as they have done. Also , this thread is about WIndows 10 - paranoia belongs in off topic.

[sellyoursoul]

Its easy to avoid - opt out. Don't use any current OS. Your browser collects data (cookies). Facebook does, a lot of sites do. Ultimately - Youll end up in a bunker with no comms of any sort. Was that click on my phone the NSA? The bigger picture is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Way too much paranoia. If youre teaching your kids that, they will rebel.

Anyone using heavy encryption will get flagged as having something to hide. There are far more important things in life. Seriously, none of us have anything worth hiding unless your doing something seriously illegal.

Heres something to feed your paranoia - Linux - the source code is available for anyone to mess with. That makes it open to anyone to look at for security holes right? Has anyone? Have they put some backdoors/hack tools to be used against you in some distro instead? How would anyone know?

There are plenty of crazy presentations such as the one you posted (probably made by the NSA) by people who are looking to introduce FUD for their own means (PSY OPS). Its a rule by fear operation. That video is by Hope X - a bunch of hackers, you think the NSA arnt in on that? You have more to worry about with hackers attacking your PC and encrypting it, then selling you the unlock key for 100s as they have done. Also , this thread is about WIndows 10 - paranoia belongs in off topic.

Privacy is a human social and psychological need. Parents talk to their kids in privacy. Couples have sex in privacy. Musicians write music in privacy. What's to hide? When people have privacy, we are different than when under the eyes, ears, and opinions of others, but that doesn't mean that we are doing anything wrong.

The pervasiveness of privacy violation doesn't make it ok. It came about mostly through facades such as "Don't be evil", hooking people with 'free' services. And once people are hooked, it's difficult to get away.

We're all being surveilled any way, so we might as well be making use of any and all encryption that we can manage. Not using encryption promotes surveillance by making it cheap and easy. You really have nothing to lose by using encryption.

Yes, this is a thread about Windows 10, and there are more aspects of an os to discuss than the gui; privacy, security, performance, efficiency, compatibiltiy. If you want to allow an os to strip away your right to privacy, it's no business of mine. And it is no business of yours if I want to keep my privacy. If you don't like this aspect of discussing the os, I suggest that you don't discuss it.

[Gonga]

i wouldn't say unifying code across all platforms is a good thing. whichever way you put it, desktop software has very different mode of interaction than phone or tablet software. Tablet or phone software at least partly overlap and Google was able to leverage that with its Fragments (or whatever it's called) API, but desktop software is a whole different league. IMO how Qt handled it is much better - a quick-to-write GUI for every platform, i.e. not trying to be everything at once but being the same at the core while having different faces for different places.

That's exactly what Win10 will do. The GUI will be different for at least three different types of devices (PC/tablet/phone) but use the same code base.

[Gonga]

I agree about the privacy violation, but don't fool yourself - they're here to stay, and if something, it will get worse with time. So, we have one of two options: Learn to live with the conscience we may be exposed anytime, anywhere, and therefore adjusting our behaviour to that (I personally have no problems with that), or exile ourselves in a desert Island and learn to live out of palmtrees and coconuts.

I try to teach my children about these problems, risking to appear to them as na old paranoid guy, but that's all I can do. Hopefully, they listen to me, and avoid risky behaviours. Fortunately, AFAIK, the societies in Europe are not as paranoid as in USA, so citizens are not so scrutinized, but not long ago, we had a political situation in Portugal where expressing opinions was a risky business, and people lived with the for almost 50 years. That didn't stop people to have opinions, and express themselves.

I see it differently. Only if no one resists privacy violations, is it here to stay. Companies who are making money off of personal information will only stop doing so when it is no longer profitable, by way of the public seeing it as a bad thing (which it is) and by making collecting personal information too expensive an endeavor.

Yes, people change their behavior under the realization of surveillance, and I see that as being a bad thing for a number of reasons. The implications are far reaching, from personal views on the world to political actions. One point to be made on a big company, such as ms, collecting personal data is who that data is shared with. To glance at the bigger picture for a second, consider the current state of consumer culture and how we got here, and look at government lashes on political dissenters who are standing up for all things which make for a decent society. Surveillance of the public has enabled both, and it's a slippery slope (and a very real one).

Its easy to avoid - opt out. Don't use any current OS. Your browser collects data (cookies). Facebook does, a lot of sites do. Ultimately - Youll end up in a bunker with no comms of any sort. Was that click on my phone the NSA? The bigger picture is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Way too much paranoia. If youre teaching your kids that, they will rebel.

Anyone using heavy encryption will get flagged as having something to hide. There are far more important things in life. Seriously, none of us have anything worth hiding unless your doing something seriously illegal.

Heres something to feed your paranoia - Linux - the source code is available for anyone to mess with. That makes it open to anyone to look at for security holes right? Has anyone? Have they put some backdoors/hack tools to be used against you in some distro instead? How would anyone know?

There are plenty of crazy presentations such as the one you posted (probably made by the NSA) by people who are looking to introduce FUD for their own means (PSY OPS). Its a rule by fear operation. That video is by Hope X - a bunch of hackers, you think the NSA arnt in on that? You have more to worry about with hackers attacking your PC and encrypting it, then selling you the unlock key for 100s as they have done. Also , this thread is about WIndows 10 - paranoia belongs in off topic.

Wow. Really? Nothing to hide? Even from criminals? How about vengeful spouses. How about stalkers / rapists. How about the company that doesn't hire you because of your political leanings - oh, and you never even knew it. How about the guy who steals your identity? It appears to me you haven't actually given this much thought. Certainly the framers of our Constitution would not agree with you. Privacy is an explicit, basic right in the U.S. Constitution - and for valid reasons.

[xNiMiNx]

Its concerning who these data collectors willingly share data with, but just having that information collected has other issues.

Target, Home Depot, JP Morgan, theyve been hacked and people they didnt want to share that data with now have it. Eventually the large piles of data mining will be the target.

Its insulting to keep seeing comments about hiding in bunkers and whatnot. There are phones, web browsers, etc specifically designed to help privacy. To make the assumption that because these tools are used means there are illegal activities behind them is also insulting. I lock my front door to keep unwanted visitors out, not because of illegal activity inside.

Again, people care about data collection, about privacy. MetLife Defender, LifeLock are examples of this. (This isnt directed specifically at this tech preview)

[UltraJv]

I agree about the privacy violation, but don't fool yourself - they're here to stay, and if something, it will get worse with time. So, we have one of two options: Learn to live with the conscience we may be exposed anytime, anywhere, and therefore adjusting our behaviour to that (I personally have no problems with that), or exile ourselves in a desert Island and learn to live out of palmtrees and coconuts.

I try to teach my children about these problems, risking to appear to them as na old paranoid guy, but that's all I can do. Hopefully, they listen to me, and avoid risky behaviours. Fortunately, AFAIK, the societies in Europe are not as paranoid as in USA, so citizens are not so scrutinized, but not long ago, we had a political situation in Portugal where expressing opinions was a risky business, and people lived with the for almost 50 years. That didn't stop people to have opinions, and express themselves.

I see it differently. Only if no one resists privacy violations, is it here to stay. Companies who are making money off of personal information will only stop doing so when it is no longer profitable, by way of the public seeing it as a bad thing (which it is) and by making collecting personal information too expensive an endeavor.

Yes, people change their behavior under the realization of surveillance, and I see that as being a bad thing for a number of reasons. The implications are far reaching, from personal views on the world to political actions. One point to be made on a big company, such as ms, collecting personal data is who that data is shared with. To glance at the bigger picture for a second, consider the current state of consumer culture and how we got here, and look at government lashes on political dissenters who are standing up for all things which make for a decent society. Surveillance of the public has enabled both, and it's a slippery slope (and a very real one).

Its easy to avoid - opt out. Don't use any current OS. Your browser collects data (cookies). Facebook does, a lot of sites do. Ultimately - Youll end up in a bunker with no comms of any sort. Was that click on my phone the NSA? The bigger picture is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Way too much paranoia. If youre teaching your kids that, they will rebel.

Anyone using heavy encryption will get flagged as having something to hide. There are far more important things in life. Seriously, none of us have anything worth hiding unless your doing something seriously illegal.

Heres something to feed your paranoia - Linux - the source code is available for anyone to mess with. That makes it open to anyone to look at for security holes right? Has anyone? Have they put some backdoors/hack tools to be used against you in some distro instead? How would anyone know?

There are plenty of crazy presentations such as the one you posted (probably made by the NSA) by people who are looking to introduce FUD for their own means (PSY OPS). Its a rule by fear operation. That video is by Hope X - a bunch of hackers, you think the NSA arnt in on that? You have more to worry about with hackers attacking your PC and encrypting it, then selling you the unlock key for 100s as they have done. Also , this thread is about WIndows 10 - paranoia belongs in off topic.

Wow. Really? Nothing to hide? Even from criminals? How about vengeful spouses. How about stalkers / rapists. How about the company that doesn't hire you because of your political leanings - oh, and you never even knew it. How about the guy who steals your identity? It appears to me you haven't actually given this much thought. Certainly the framers of our Constitution would not agree with you. Privacy is an explicit, basic right in the U.S. Constitution - and for valid reasons.

Ive given it plenty of thought. If youre worried about those things - don't use Facebook or email or sms text or internet or mail or speak too loudly to be over heard or anything. Shred your Garbage. Rapists? really - oh please.

Privacy is not a new concern, all the things you discuss have been around for thousands of years. It happened with Papyrus, even before Guttenberg used paper. They wont ever go away - never. Sorry, just get used to it.

If you think that attacking me with your concerns will help - wrong - use your right not to do things. Its a free world, unless you look at negative things - try looking at the positives huh? Its funny how all the people who worry about these things see a bad world. Its not, change your viewpoint and it changes what you see. What I see is that certain Governments rule by fear, keeping their people under control by filling them with negatives. How we got to rapists from Windows 10 I really don't know.

[sellyoursoul]

It never ceases to amaze me, seeing someone argue away his own rights. But with such anger and the perception that you're being attacked? Something is wrong with this picture.

Any way, I hope that ms gets it together, taking to heart and head some of the privacy talk floating around about Windows 10. And maybe Windows users will come around from being distracted by the color of the trojan horse's tail, focusing more on what is in the os.

[xNiMiNx]

...focusing more on what is in the os.

http://www.wpcentral.com/windows-81-upd ... al-preview

[hibidy]

The ebbs and flows of kvr, can't say I haven't been a big part of it

Seriously though, security is an issue. I envy people who can dodge the bullet (though realistically the "internet" knows exactly who you are and how to find you anyways)

[UltraJv]

It never ceases to amaze me, seeing someone argue away his own rights. But with such anger and the perception that you're being attacked? Something is wrong with this picture.

Any way, I hope that ms gets it together, taking to heart and head some of the privacy talk floating around about Windows 10. And maybe Windows users will come around from being distracted by the color of the trojan horse's tail, focusing more on what is in the os.

I live in the real world. A private detective will violate your privacy at the drop of a hat. Nothing you can do about it. As will anyone who thinks your up to something. Constitution or not. The illusion is that we think we have very much control over what happens in life. We don't. Anyway - back to Windows 10