Bladerunner would be forgettable without the soundtrack.
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ThoughtExperiment ThoughtExperiment https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7790
- KVRian
- 743 posts since 26 Jun, 2003 from UK
So did Philip K.Dick also invent cyberpunk? In 1968? I always knew he was a genius!!
- KVRAF
- 4851 posts since 5 May, 2005 from Stockholm, Sweden
I bought the collectors edition blu-ray a couple of weeks back. I already had the final cut on blu-ray but this one has all the versions. I had never seen the US theatrical version with the voice-over before. I have nothing against voice overs, the first Sin-City is one of my favourite recent movies but my god the narration dialog was so bad in Blade Runner I had to shut it off after 15 minutes. I'll go back to it and watch the whole thing eventually but not just yet.
As for the movie itself (the final cut being the definitive version) I have to be in the right mood to watch it. I always think the scene where Deckard is pretending to be a reporter with the funny voice as a bit out of place, for both the overall mood of the movie and the character of Deckard himself. He's this generally sombre, borderline grumpy guy who all of a sudden decides to do some unnecessary light-hearted imitation. Although this scene and some parts in the Indiana Jones movies showed that Ford could easily handle humor something we never saw so much since.
As for the movie itself (the final cut being the definitive version) I have to be in the right mood to watch it. I always think the scene where Deckard is pretending to be a reporter with the funny voice as a bit out of place, for both the overall mood of the movie and the character of Deckard himself. He's this generally sombre, borderline grumpy guy who all of a sudden decides to do some unnecessary light-hearted imitation. Although this scene and some parts in the Indiana Jones movies showed that Ford could easily handle humor something we never saw so much since.
Last edited by lotus2035 on Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Movies are often the sum of their parts, especially those that rely a lot of elements other than the acting.
I don't know that without the soundtrack it would be a bad film, but it might be a lesser film. To be honest I've never thought of the soundtrack as being that great so perhaps I wouldn't miss it.
I don't know that without the soundtrack it would be a bad film, but it might be a lesser film. To be honest I've never thought of the soundtrack as being that great so perhaps I wouldn't miss it.
- KVRAF
- 2946 posts since 31 Jan, 2003 from Ghent, Belgium
Bladerunner is awesome (I'm not a review writer, so I'm not going to try...),
its soundtrack is ok... (I like some parts better than others)
But that's my taste in music ofcourse ... e.g. I love this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096251/ (Tetsuo (1989))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROMTzJsfOI
And John Carpenter's stuff is pretty great too!
its soundtrack is ok... (I like some parts better than others)
But that's my taste in music ofcourse ... e.g. I love this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096251/ (Tetsuo (1989))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROMTzJsfOI
And John Carpenter's stuff is pretty great too!
Last edited by T-CM11 on Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33178 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Dick was primarily preoccupied with the nature of both human identity and reality, and there was very little of what would normally be associated with Cyberpunk in DADoES. Maze of Death from '68 does include references to a virtual reality, though, the mechanism behind the shifts of reality the protagonists unknowingly experience.mikusan wrote:So did Philip K.Dick also invent cyberpunk? In 1968? I always knew he was a genius!!
Its not alone for addressing VR in that timeperiod; for example Ben Bova's "The Duellng Machine" detailed immersive VR in 1969.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
For some reason William Gibson's 'Neuromancer' seems to get the credit for 'inventing' the concept, yet Blade Runner (and of course DADoES) predates it.whyterabbyt wrote:Dick was primarily preoccupied with the nature of both human identity and reality, and there was very little of what would normally be associated with Cyberpunk in DADoES. Maze of Death from '68 does include references to a virtual reality, though, the mechanism behind the shifts of reality the protagonists unknowingly experience.mikusan wrote:So did Philip K.Dick also invent cyberpunk? In 1968? I always knew he was a genius!!
Its not alone for addressing VR in that timeperiod; for example Ben Bova's "The Duellng Machine" detailed immersive VR in 1969.
Realistically it is probably something that has no point of origin and only the term has a point of origin.
The works of Dick have often been cited, yet if we look at it in terms of the use of future technology in media, I have heard a convincing argument that Mary Shelley's 'Frankenstein' is a forerunner of the concept.
I think the only thing we can really say with any certainty is where the term originated from.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33178 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
BR vs NM is parallel evolution I think. Gibson admits that just seeing the first 20 minutes of BR was enough to make him think that NM was going to be forever seen as derivative of BR. What NM, and the 'mirrorshades' cyberpunk brought to the picture as 'new', really was bringing the hacking-as-combat aspect. Dystopia had been done, cybernetics/bionics had been done, VR had been done, even to the CR-as-combat level, but there was very little that focussed on that hacker/cracker thing in quite the same way. Not that it hadnt been done (Brunner's Shockwave Rider is the archetype IMO) but the synthesis of that neo-military/neo-criminal aspect to hacking and VR is what defined cyberpunk, I think.robojam wrote: For some reason William Gibson's 'Neuromancer' seems to get the credit for 'inventing' the concept, yet Blade Runner (and of course DADoES) predates it.
As a predecessor of the notion of 'replicant', absolutely; and Frankenstein in turn, crudely, was a revisitation of the stories of both Prometheus and the Golem etc.robojam wrote:The works of Dick have often been cited, yet if we look at it in terms of the use of future technology in media, I have heard a convincing argument that Mary Shelley's 'Frankenstein' is a forerunner of the concept.
PKD took it deeper, though. Frankenstein's creation couldnt pass for human; Dick though was more interested in the point where you couldnt tell who was human and who wasnt, and that had a darker folklore/mythology/psychology: it was about the fear of changelings, malevolant doppelgangers, the identical replica who might completely replace you, unknown to everyone, and be better than you...
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Interesting - I didn't know that Gibson had thought that.
Good point about the hacking aspects though - probably wouldn't have come to mind to anyone in the late 60s when the forerunners of the internet were almost unknown to the public, but by the early 80s many of the necessary technologies were in place and somewhat widely available.
To be honest I'm a bit out of my league as I'm not really a cyberpunk adherent of any sort, but there are definitely a few representative books and films that I know well.
Good point about the hacking aspects though - probably wouldn't have come to mind to anyone in the late 60s when the forerunners of the internet were almost unknown to the public, but by the early 80s many of the necessary technologies were in place and somewhat widely available.
To be honest I'm a bit out of my league as I'm not really a cyberpunk adherent of any sort, but there are definitely a few representative books and films that I know well.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33178 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I'd certainly say Bladerunner is pretty definitive for cyberpunk 'look and feel' ; the massive corporations, the wealth disparity, the chinatown-everywhere neon ambience. It contributed pretty significantly to the tropes of science fiction itself, in a way that very few other films have ever done.robojam wrote:Interesting - I didn't know that Gibson had thought that.
Good point about the hacking aspects though - probably wouldn't have come to mind to anyone in the late 60s when the forerunners of the internet were almost unknown to the public, but by the early 80s many of the necessary technologies were in place and somewhat widely available.
To be honest I'm a bit out of my league as I'm not really a cyberpunk adherent of any sort, but there are definitely a few representative books and films that I know well.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Well, if we look at the concept of "virtual reality" I think it got brought up several times in the 60ies and 70ies already. Maybe sooner - I'm not that much of a book reader lately. Though wasn't this also already somewhat addressed in books like 1984 (released in 1949) as well?
But I do remember that the concept of "The Matrix" and "13th floor" definitely already date back to early "Twilight Zone" episodes, which were picked up again as well in "Outer Limits". So it is indeed hard to pin down "who" defined the genre and when it was defined. But the concepts are definitely really old - yet those that "stood out" get the clear definition.
It's like with music "genres" - we saw some of them years ago, but only at a later state were they "tagged" and "defined" as a new "genre".
But yes, movies like "I, Robot" and "Minority Report" were just sterile 3D action bollocks. Compared to the indy production "A Scanner Darkly" - that's definitely worlds apart!
Again: Bubblegum Crisis, Masamune Shirow manga (Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed), Judge Dredd comics (Megacities) - these instantly come to mind.
But I do remember that the concept of "The Matrix" and "13th floor" definitely already date back to early "Twilight Zone" episodes, which were picked up again as well in "Outer Limits". So it is indeed hard to pin down "who" defined the genre and when it was defined. But the concepts are definitely really old - yet those that "stood out" get the clear definition.
It's like with music "genres" - we saw some of them years ago, but only at a later state were they "tagged" and "defined" as a new "genre".
Well, Dune and Blade Runner used props. Good or bad ones lies in the eye of the beholder in comparison to the books (personally I prefer the Sandworms from David Lynch, but I do prefer the design of the universe from the John Harrison version from 2000). Same with "Lord of the Rings" compared to "The Hobbit" - I actually prefer the "Ring Trilogy" more than the new "Hobbit Look" due to less 3D model usage.GaryG wrote:IMHO Bladerunner still looks fantastic, so real and earthy. Compare that with something comparable today (I, Robot or Minority Report maybe). Very sterile, especially the extras, just walking around CGI augmented ets, looking lost. Compare it with other films from that era too, stuff like Dune, absolutely awful in comparison.
But yes, movies like "I, Robot" and "Minority Report" were just sterile 3D action bollocks. Compared to the indy production "A Scanner Darkly" - that's definitely worlds apart!
I'd say comics and certain animated shows contributed way more to that. That, and to a certain extend the Pen&Paper fanbase.whyterabbyt wrote:I'd certainly say Bladerunner is pretty definitive for cyberpunk 'look and feel' ; the massive corporations, the wealth disparity, the chinatown-everywhere neon ambience. It contributed pretty significantly to the tropes of science fiction itself, in a way that very few other films have ever done.
Again: Bubblegum Crisis, Masamune Shirow manga (Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed), Judge Dredd comics (Megacities) - these instantly come to mind.
- Beware the Quoth
- 33178 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I already said as much, yesCompyfox wrote:Well, if we look at the concept of "virtual reality" I think it got brought up several times in the 60ies and 70ies already.
Bladerunner hit cinemas 1982. Check your dates for those manga, BR precedes them all. By the time Appleseed came out, which I think is the earliest of those you mention (1985) 'cyberpunk' fiction was in full swing, already reliant on the tropes Im talking about, and it had started to percolate into mainstream filmic sf.I'd say comics and certain animated shows contributed way more to that.That, and to a certain extend the Pen&Paper fanbase.whyterabbyt wrote:I'd certainly say Bladerunner is pretty definitive for cyberpunk 'look and feel' ; the massive corporations, the wealth disparity, the chinatown-everywhere neon ambience. It contributed pretty significantly to the tropes of science fiction itself, in a way that very few other films have ever done.
Again: Bubblegum Crisis, Masamune Shirow manga (Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed), Judge Dredd comics (Megacities) - these instantly come to mind.
Dredd did rely on that notion of the massively sprawling metropolis, but that in itself wasnt new to SF, and the non-cartoony elements of the society of MegaCity were culled freely from much older sources (eg Stand on Zanzibar, Make Room Make Room etc).
And by the way, Im primarily talking about written science fiction, which has always been the 'primary' source for other media. Few genre films ever influence the fiction of the genre, but Bladerunner absolutely did; a denial of that is on the order of denying the influence of the first VU album on music... it just doesnt reflect known reality.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 15517 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
Oh man, that trailer brought back horrible memories of suffering through that film. Like 200 Motels, I've tried to watch it again in something of a sterile context to see if there was something that I was missing. I find them both completely unwatchable. To be clear though, 200 Motels must be what they show in hell, it's either that or the entire Olsen twin library alternated with every episode of The Facts of Life, on repeat, for all of eternity.T-CM11 wrote:Bladerunner is awesome (I'm not a review writer, so I'm not going to try...),
its soundtrack is ok... (I like some parts better than others)
But that's my taste in music ofcourse ... e.g. I love this one:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096251/ (Tetsuo (1989))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROMTzJsfOI
And John Carpenter's stuff is pretty great too!
"you can sit on my face, where's my waitress."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eN-ScHMdC0
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- KVRian
- 1104 posts since 14 Oct, 2006 from france
No offence ! I just felt you were asking for a small kick in the butt with such a provocative sentence, and i thought i could help a bit... (I'm very helpfull...)ghettosynth wrote:Assertions of opinion just are, on the other hand, assertions of logical conclusion that invoke fallacy, are, as you say, stupid.budweiser wrote:You'd better admit you're a bit low-ceilinged and unconcerned by poetry. Telling a movie with such a universal recognition is mediocre is such a stupid assertion that i allows me to insist...ghettosynth wrote:No, you just need a bigger TV set.budweiser wrote:Oh god... time for glasses.ghettosynth wrote:I think that the movie is somewhat mediocre.
Go watch transformers !
Threads like this are great, they sort out quickly for me who has something of their own to say, and who doesn't.
If you don't feel the inherent poetry and philosophy behind the movie, it's just because Transformers fit better to your needs.. What's left to say ?
Take a break from Pacific rim and watch the very well documented making of included in the anniversary edition to understand how amazing this movie is, and how it was done, delivered in pain.
I'm sure if you think, you can find a better word than mediocre for such an artistic work and talent convergence...
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Can't disagree with any of that.whyterabbyt wrote:I'd certainly say Bladerunner is pretty definitive for cyberpunk 'look and feel' ; the massive corporations, the wealth disparity, the chinatown-everywhere neon ambience. It contributed pretty significantly to the tropes of science fiction itself, in a way that very few other films have ever done.
- KVRAF
- 7749 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
There's a tale in Ray Bradburys 'illustrated man' (veldt?) that has a '3d nursery', maybe more of a holodeck style VR than cyberspace. Think IM came out in the early 50s but was all previously published stuff so actual story would ~1950.whyterabbyt wrote:Dick was primarily preoccupied with the nature of both human identity and reality, and there was very little of what would normally be associated with Cyberpunk in DADoES. Maze of Death from '68 does include references to a virtual reality, though, the mechanism behind the shifts of reality the protagonists unknowingly experience.mikusan wrote:So did Philip K.Dick also invent cyberpunk? In 1968? I always knew he was a genius!!
Its not alone for addressing VR in that timeperiod; for example Ben Bova's "The Duellng Machine" detailed immersive VR in 1969.
Though sure there are other examples, not starting a pissing contest I know I can't win.