Reason 8 - Official

[Tronam]

Whew!... I'm glad I came here. Just finished playing with the R8 Beta and I thought I was really dense or crazy. I couldn't find anything warranting a paid, full upgrade price. Unless they have an updated reverb or sequencer still under wraps, I don't get it. I certainly don't get the hyperbolic statements that Propellerheads have used in the R8 marketing so far.

Everything I've seen just feels like this should be a free, point release upgrade.

If this is all they have for R8, I think Propellerhead will be cutting the upgrade price, or offering a huge % off sale very soon. I always give into the lure of "the upgrade", but this just feels like Reason 7 with a dab of makeup. I'm sure I'll get it at some point, but there's nothing here that motivates me set some money aside for the release date. More like... "I'll get it when I get it".

The beta doesn't include the new Softube amps and a "dab of makeup" wouldn't include significant functional changes to the program, so I think that's a pretty weak analogy. For some users the new browser and drag'n'drop flexibility will speed up their workflow dramatically, but your summation leads me to believe that you're a Reason 7 synth geek (which would describe me) who isn't impressed by the guitar/hip hop vibe of this upgrade and doesn't see enough value in it to be worthwhile. I'm in that boat along with a lot of R7 users, but I still think these updates are good for the program and I'll upgrade eventually.

Reason users have been conditioned for years to equate upgrades with new rack devices and most everything else being merely a bonus. I actually want to see Propellerhead focus more on upgrades that improve the application as a whole, so if they can keep releasing faster updates like this one I'll be happy in the long run.

[kmonkey]

The beta doesn't include the new Softube amps and a "dab of makeup" wouldn't include significant functional changes to the program, so I think that's a pretty weak analogy.

No it isn't weak analogy. You see, for example i like two new amps (i am not guitar player, i do electronic music but use these amps for special FX) but these two amps aren't that cute to anyone who don't need them.

So...if you remove these two from upgrade and offer them as separate purchase - noone would ever complain.

But one has to be blindfolded not to see that they actually included this just to make R8 upgrade more cute and to give it more "value". Because if you remove these two you basically have funny drag and drop, browser which quite a lot people don't like and that's it...oh and there's draw note with double click and resize not from left side..

Propellerheads said that devil is in details and that there are many enhancements but i talked with beta testers and no, they don't see any other change apart from what i just listed - minus two amps not being included in beta but nobody cares for them.

And to tell you...it's a bit crazy and naive to think (i see some people still think that R8 upgrade is more then what is said in public but it's a secret) that there is a lot more inside upgrade (their words) but for some weird reason they did not announce it or said it in any of their R8 videos. One would think that company for sure want to preview key points to their loyal user which are going to be included in paid upgrade. However all we can see, all what betatesters can see is exactly what i listed above. Two amps, and functionality which is new but so mandatory that quite a lot of users don't want to give their money.

You know there is a shit storm at Props forum as well.

From what ican recall in past, Propellerheads seems to be decent company which care for users. My guess is that it will be released on 30th. Then one month of nothing and then around Christmas time they will offer generous upgrade price with maybe free Pulsar or something like that. But it's a bold guess.

[Tronam]

The beta doesn't include the new Softube amps and a "dab of makeup" wouldn't include significant functional changes to the program, so I think that's a pretty weak analogy.

No it isn't weak analogy. You see, for example i like two new amps (i am not guitar player, i do electronic music but use these amps for special FX) but these two amps aren't that cute to anyone who don't need them.

The reason why I singled out the "dab of makeup" analogy is that it completely ignores the new amps, the overhauled (much faster) context sensitive browser and drag'n'drop workflow changes throughout the program that also allow batch dropping of audio files onto all the sampler devices or specific points on the timeline directly from the desktop. Maybe these features don't appeal to you, but the makeup analogy makes no sense at all because these are fundamental, functional improvements to the program. Semantics are boring though.

So...if you remove these two from upgrade and offer them as separate purchase - noone would ever complain.

But one has to be blindfolded not to see that they actually included this just to make R8 upgrade more cute and to give it more "value". Because if you remove these two you basically have funny drag and drop, browser which quite a lot people don't like and that's it...oh and there's draw note with double click and resize not from left side..

Their purpose isn't cuteness. These are essentially longterm replacement devices for the Line6 amps that were inherited from Record and will be phased out of Reason in mid-2016. Still no idea why, but for all we know it could somehow be related to Yamaha's acquisition of Line6 last winter.

Propellerheads said that devil is in details and that there are many enhancements but i talked with beta testers and no, they don't see any other change apart from what i just listed - minus two amps not being included in beta but nobody cares for them.

Then they weren't paying very close attention.

[kmonkey]

Their purpose isn't cuteness. These are essentially longterm replacement devices for the Line6 amps that were inherited from Record and will be phased out of Reason in mid-2016. Still no idea why, but for all we know it could somehow be related to Yamaha's acquisition of Line6 last winter.

Fine point regarding amps. Like i said i like them and i think Softube is producing great stuff. I tried Line 6 amps in R7 for the last few days and - no i don't like them at all. It's happy coincidence that i just jumped to R7 (and will get R8 for free) thereofre i do not need to rely or use Line 6, i'll just wait for Softube..

Then they weren't paying very close attention.

Mmm'key - so please can you tell me apart from what i listed (i'll repeat: new browser, drag and drop anything, double click to draw and resize from left side). I intentionally did not listed new GUI because most definitelly i see this as mandatory and quite franky noone easked for it so it's their choice. I guess you are gonna tell me that you are under NDA but i'll see it anyway two weeks later so will check numerous hidden tricks bymyself..

For me it's hard to belive that out of four people with which i talked to and which tried R8 beta - none of these people managed to find anything else new apart from what we saw in video.

They are all seasoned Reason users so if really they couldn't find anything new apart from what we saw in video - and you did - then i am affraid that this R8 isn't as intuitive as it was for long year Reason users..

[ObsoleteAcc99]

The beta doesn't include the new Softube amps and a "dab of makeup" wouldn't include significant functional changes to the program, so I think that's a pretty weak analogy.

No it isn't weak analogy. You see, for example i like two new amps (i am not guitar player, i do electronic music but use these amps for special FX) but these two amps aren't that cute to anyone who don't need them.

So...if you remove these two from upgrade and offer them as separate purchase - noone would ever complain.

But one has to be blindfolded not to see that they actually included this just to make R8 upgrade more cute and to give it more "value". Because if you remove these two you basically have funny drag and drop, browser which quite a lot people don't like and that's it...oh and there's draw note with double click and resize not from left side..

Propellerheads said that devil is in details and that there are many enhancements but i talked with beta testers and no, they don't see any other change apart from what i just listed - minus two amps not being included in beta but nobody cares for them.

And to tell you...it's a bit crazy and naive to think (i see some people still think that R8 upgrade is more then what is said in public but it's a secret) that there is a lot more inside upgrade (their words) but for some weird reason they did not announce it or said it in any of their R8 videos. One would think that company for sure want to preview key points to their loyal user which are going to be included in paid upgrade. However all we can see, all what betatesters can see is exactly what i listed above. Two amps, and functionality which is new but so mandatory that quite a lot of users don't want to give their money.

You know there is a shit storm at Props forum as well.

From what ican recall in past, Propellerheads seems to be decent company which care for users. My guess is that it will be released on 30th. Then one month of nothing and then around Christmas time they will offer generous upgrade price with maybe free Pulsar or something like that. But it's a bold guess.

how would you know? You are not in the beta, and there are lots of new little things which make change the workflow for the better dramatically. It took some time to get used to, and i can't talk about it because i'm under NDA, but don't speak and make such bold statements about what is in it and not when you haven't a clue.

Oh, and i thought you didn't even like reason? like, at all?

Edit: Oh i see you talked to other testers so

1) They either lied to you due to NDA

or

2) they are really bad testers.

If they haven't seen the little extras. The devil is in the details as props say, and there's lots of little ones that really make it a much more pleasant place.

I am no fanboy, i am super pissed that we are not getting some other major features it needs, but there's not "just left note resize, browser and 2 amps". Add another ten things that are really REALLY good and you might be closer.

[toothnclaw]

i am super pissed that we are not getting some other major features it needs

Such as?

[Tronam]

Mmm'key - so please can you tell me apart from what i listed (i'll repeat: new browser, drag and drop anything, double click to draw and resize from left side). I intentionally did not listed new GUI because most definitelly i see this as mandatory and quite franky noone easked for it so it's their choice. I guess you are gonna tell me that you are under NDA but i'll see it anyway two weeks later so will check numerous hidden tricks by myself..

For me it's hard to belive that out of four people with which i talked to and which tried R8 beta - none of these people managed to find anything else new apart from what we saw in video.

They are all seasoned Reason users so if really they couldn't find anything new apart from what we saw in video - and you did - then i am affraid that this R8 isn't as intuitive as it was for long year Reason users.

I will be happy to provide a detailed list of every little enhancement, modification and new menu option... on September 30th.

It's easy to over-inflate expectations though. As far as we know the major features have already been introduced, but at the same time they haven't really been fully explained so many of the side benefits weren't touched on. There are plenty of minor improvements as well though that address longstanding issues going back 10+ years for me. This doesn't mean there aren't also 100 other things I'd still like to see in the future, but that's nothing new. Reason is not the end-all solution for everything, but it's still my favorite music program.

[kmonkey]

The beta doesn't include the new Softube amps and a "dab of makeup" wouldn't include significant functional changes to the program, so I think that's a pretty weak analogy.

No it isn't weak analogy. You see, for example i like two new amps (i am not guitar player, i do electronic music but use these amps for special FX) but these two amps aren't that cute to anyone who don't need them.

So...if you remove these two from upgrade and offer them as separate purchase - noone would ever complain.

But one has to be blindfolded not to see that they actually included this just to make R8 upgrade more cute and to give it more "value". Because if you remove these two you basically have funny drag and drop, browser which quite a lot people don't like and that's it...oh and there's draw note with double click and resize not from left side..

Propellerheads said that devil is in details and that there are many enhancements but i talked with beta testers and no, they don't see any other change apart from what i just listed - minus two amps not being included in beta but nobody cares for them.

And to tell you...it's a bit crazy and naive to think (i see some people still think that R8 upgrade is more then what is said in public but it's a secret) that there is a lot more inside upgrade (their words) but for some weird reason they did not announce it or said it in any of their R8 videos. One would think that company for sure want to preview key points to their loyal user which are going to be included in paid upgrade. However all we can see, all what betatesters can see is exactly what i listed above. Two amps, and functionality which is new but so mandatory that quite a lot of users don't want to give their money.

You know there is a shit storm at Props forum as well.

From what ican recall in past, Propellerheads seems to be decent company which care for users. My guess is that it will be released on 30th. Then one month of nothing and then around Christmas time they will offer generous upgrade price with maybe free Pulsar or something like that. But it's a bold guess.

how would you know? You are not in the beta, and there are lots of new little things which make change the workflow for the better dramatically. It took some time to get used to, and i can't talk about it because i'm under NDA, but don't speak and make such bold statements about what is in it and not when you haven't a clue.

Oh, and i thought you didn't even like reason? like, at all?

Edit: Oh i see you talked to other testers so

1) They either lied to you due to NDA

or

2) they are really bad testers.

If they haven't seen the little extras. The devil is in the details as props say, and there's lots of little ones that really make it a much more pleasant place.

I am no fanboy, i am super pissed that we are not getting some other major features it needs, but there's not "just left note resize, browser and 2 amps". Add another ten things that are really REALLY good and you might be closer.

Huh...not sure how this happened because most definitely i muted you half (or more) year ago since last time when you insulted me via PM's without any sane reason referring to a thread or something. Obviously something happened inside KVR settings (or you have different username) and i'll repeat my actions but since it happened that i see what you are posting i can only say that i am amazed.

Not sure how did you get involved in Reason again because from what you told us and what can still be seen on various forum places you are banned by them for life because your RE issues and cosmos drama involved in all this here and at their forum. Apparently you prepared lawsuit for them and article for the newspaper but whole thing stopped when they refunded you and banned you for life.

How the hell you get into it again and even betatest i don't even want to know. I suggest that you just mute me please and forget about me. Remember i am insane lunatic, idiot (can't recall other words).. Just let it go...

If i am mistaken and you are someone else i apologize but if not - just forget about me. And please don't send me 20 PM's..

MUTE ME

[kmonkey]

Mmm'key - so please can you tell me apart from what i listed (i'll repeat: new browser, drag and drop anything, double click to draw and resize from left side). I intentionally did not listed new GUI because most definitelly i see this as mandatory and quite franky noone easked for it so it's their choice. I guess you are gonna tell me that you are under NDA but i'll see it anyway two weeks later so will check numerous hidden tricks by myself..

For me it's hard to belive that out of four people with which i talked to and which tried R8 beta - none of these people managed to find anything else new apart from what we saw in video.

They are all seasoned Reason users so if really they couldn't find anything new apart from what we saw in video - and you did - then i am affraid that this R8 isn't as intuitive as it was for long year Reason users.

I will be happy to provide a detailed list of every little enhancement, modification and new menu option... on September 30th.

It's easy to over-inflate expectations though. As far as we know the major features have already been introduced, but at the same time they haven't really been fully explained so many of the side benefits weren't touched on. There are plenty of minor improvements as well though that address longstanding issues going back 10+ years for me. This doesn't mean there aren't also 100 other things I'd still like to see in the future, but that's nothing new. Reason is not the end-all solution for everything, but it's still my favorite music program.

I agree. 15 days more to see what is there - but quite honestly i am working in it and i am amazed how Reason matured. I tried it when it was v1 but di not liked sound. It's very easy to mix and get superb results on new SSL mixer.

Note that i am not whining. I guess i just wanted to pull more info from you guys.

While we are at it (i am new user) do you happen to know is it wise to not buy RE's now and wait for some kind of Christmas sale? Do they offer such things? I am mainly interested in Propellerhead RE's which is why i am asking. Likely i will order TSAR (on sale now) and Predator but that is up to their developers and their own pricing and sales....

[kmonkey]

Can you guys at least tell me is it possible to close new browser tab? Belive it or not i mainly work inside Reason via right click or opening menus from little boxes on devices...

From video if i am not mistaken - one can (i am guessing with TAB key) browse between SEQ, Mixer and Rack? Yes? But what about browser can i close it?

[kmonkey]

On thing which amazes me inside Reason and i forgot to add is - user can make use of internal FX on various synths

Jesus Christ that alone is HUGGGEEE point. One can order Antidote or Predator and use it as synth but not just that - you are going to get whole chain of new effects - that is HUGE. i mean huge. Antidote have amazing effects, predator as well. Little cabling and you are there.


And Reason alone does have some freaking FXs..Sure some older Reason devices are outdated a bit but newer are top of the top imho. Add to that new Amps in R8..well..only thing with which i am not satisfied is tedious piano roll editing and drawing. Hopefully this is going to change..

[ObsoleteAcc99]

i am super pissed that we are not getting some other major features it needs

Such as?

that's all discussed in the forums,. and even though they have announced the major features and it's probably ok for me to say the big ones "missing" i would rather not till release. But we do talk about it in props forums but even there I have actually not really discussed it in the reg forums since being accepted as a tester.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

On thing which amazes me inside Reason and i forgot to add is - user can make use of internal FX on various synths

Jesus Christ that alone is HUGGGEEE point. One can order Antidote or Predator and use it as synth but not just that - you are going to get whole chain of new effects - that is HUGE. i mean huge. Antidote have amazing effects, predator as well. Little cabling and you are there.


And Reason alone does have some freaking FXs..Sure some older Reason devices are outdated a bit but newer are top of the top imho. Add to that new Amps in R8..well..only thing with which i am not satisfied is tedious piano roll editing and drawing. Hopefully this is going to change..

well don't forget there is no difference here because rob papen provides insert version of predator FX for any host anyway (even easier to use than reason's cause no cabling required LOL).

But to be able to use antidote and kong fx, yes very cool.

edit and wait for an Xmas sale for RE (or black friday)

[jjpscott01]

Being a tester also I can tell you that I was not impressed when the new features were announced but now all I can tell you it is by far faster than ever before to get things done.

[softska]

It is different alright, not sure I agree if it is really faster besides drag&drop samples.