LAST CHANCE! Poly-Ana and L'il Poly-Ana 1.20 BETA w. OSX x64 AU support!

[AdmiralQuality]

Known issue:

In L'il Poly-Ana the Prog: and Bank: load labels are reversed. The buttons work correctly, they're just labeled the opposite of what they are.

[AdmiralQuality]

A word about interchangeability of L'il and full Poly-Ana (this is explained in the documentation but of course nobody reads it)...

Whether both can co-exist at once is entirely up to your host. For hosts that won't allow it (most AU hosts, Live, Bidule, newer versions of Cubase) you will have to uninstall the one you don't want to use to make sure the host prefers the one you want. (Just drag the plug-in file to some other folder outside your VST or Components folder, and restart your host. You can switch to the other at any time by swapping their locations. This isn't difficult!)

This is because L'il Poly-Ana and full Poly-Ana both share the same plug-in ID. This is intentional, so that one can replace the other in a project. If we didn't do it this way then you couldn't upgrade from L'il to full Poly-Ana and have the full version replace L'il in your old projects. (Or vice versa for projects where you're done tweaking sounds and no longer need to see the full Poly-Ana interface.) Think of it like upgrading to a new version of a plug-in. When you do that, all your old projects don't break, they automatically insert the new version into old projects that used the older version. That's because the new version has the same plug-in ID as the old version.

Other hosts that are smart, like Reaper or Cubase from a few major versions back, don't have this problem. They will happily allow plug-ins with duplicate IDs to co-exist because they note other aspects of the plug-in in the project. (Typically the file name as well. And if it can't find the exact same file-named plug-in, then it fails safe into settling for a plug-in with the same ID. Easy! But some developers prefer to think inside the box, indeed, to create new boxes, and limit the user instead of enable them. Logic vs. Reaper.)

Now, on hosts where they are allowed to co-exist, there's no way to replace one with the other in a project. (Obviously you can remove a plug-in from a project and replace it with another in the same "slot". But then you lose the internal state of the programs of the plug-in you removed. And usually any automation recording as well.) So if you want to switch between them in the same project, even in a host that allows co-existence, you should use the install/uninstall method as well.

Yes, I considered making L'il and full Poly-Ana the same plug-in just with two different display modes, and was about to. Then I realized that would completely void any reason to buy full Poly-Ana. (As you could just switch L'il to full, do your program editing, then switch back to L'il to have gap-free audio output.) Also, L'il doesn't support the effect version where full Poly-Ana does. In that case there IS a different plug-in ID, because Poly-Ana and Poly-AnaFX are conceptually different tools -- though again, that whole concept of effect vs. instrument is yet another arbitrarily introduced box that some genius at Steinberg though would be a good limitation to throw on you. Certain heroic hosts like Reaper don't care if a plug-in is an effect or an instrument -- perfectly demonstrating that this limitation never needed to be there in the first place. (If you buy a Minimoog, have you bought an effect, or an instrument? Don't make me choose!)

Make sense?

[fmr]

So, ho much more time until the discount is over? This is a hard time for me, with so many good promotions going on, and so little money to spend on

[kuzami]

The GUI is pretty much unusable for me.

[AdmiralQuality]

So, ho much more time until the discount is over? This is a hard time for me, with so many good promotions going on, and so little money to spend on

At least until next Sunday (Nov 16). Maybe longer, depending on how the remaining development goes, but all I can promise for sure is not before then.

(I have very little money too and could sure use some.)

[AdmiralQuality]

The GUI is pretty much unusable for me.

That doesn't tell us anything. Why is it unusable for you? Myself and many others certainly manage to use it . (And did you try changing the mod source dials to drop-down menus? Click the product name to bring up the Options Dialog.)

[fmr]

Well, while we're at it, maybe you could get rid of those white rings that surround the knobs. For example, I have a lot of difficulty telling what values the envelopes have, since you have very tiny knobs with a white pointer over a white ring - I hardly see the pointer (basically, I simply don't see it). If you want a ring, just make it tiny, like just a line on the outside of what is now a ring, and leave the rest in the dark blue background. That way, maybe we would be able to see the pointers in the knobs.

And you could replace the switches with simple on/off buttons, where on on will be lighted and off will be dark.

The first is what troubles me most in your synth GUI. The second, I can live with it, but would prefer the buttons anytime.

[AdmiralQuality]

Well, while we're at it, maybe you could get rid of those white rings that surround the knobs. For example, I have a lot of difficulty telling what values the envelopes have, since you have very tiny knobs with a white pointer over a white ring - I hardly see the pointer (basically, I simply don't see it). If you want a ring, just make it tiny, like just a line on the outside of what is now a ring, and leave the rest in the dark blue background. That way, maybe we would be able to see the pointers in the knobs.

And you could replace the switches with simple on/off buttons, where on on will be lighted and off will be dark.

The first is what troubles me most in your synth GUI. The second, I can live with it, but would prefer the buttons anytime.

Removing the rings can be done with a custom background. (Possible in Mac right now as described above. And coming back to Windows in the next update, I hope!)

But again... the tool tips! And the Parameter Display. Nobody should have trouble telling what any values are, quite exactly.

The switches are more functional than buttons. (They can be grabbed and dragged. Making them real-time performable vs. clicking through states on a button which is virtually impossible to time to the music. And for 3-state toggles, they jump to the spot you click into them on. You don't need to cycle through all the states as on most other plug-in products.)

I really did think a lot about this before building it. Most stuff that's a bit different from what you're used to is entirely intentional, and for a reason of improvement over the norm. Spend some time with it and see if you don't change your mind. I've had many people tell me that after using it for a few days their opinion of the GUI changed completely.

[fmr]

Removing the rings can be done with a custom background. (Possible in Mac right now as described above. And coming back to Windows in the next update, I hope!)

But again... the tool tips! And the Parameter Display. Nobody should have trouble telling what any values are, quite exactly.

The switches are more functional than buttons. (They can be grabbed and dragged. Making them real-time performable vs. clicking through states on a button which is virtually impossible to time to the music. And for 3-state toggles, they jump to the spot you click into them on. You don't need to cycle through all the states as on most other plug-in products.)

I really did think a lot about this before building it. Most stuff that's a bit different from what you're used to is entirely intentional, and for a reason of improvement over the norm. Spend some time with it and see if you don't change your mind. I've had many people tell me that after using it for a few days their opinion of the GUI changed completely.

Well, you asked, and I gave you my opinion. It's just that - my opinion. I've been using for some days now, and my opinion didn't change much - I would get rid of the rings if I could.

Sure, the tooltips are good, but when you are looking at a patch globally, trying to see what can be done, you don't want to get the mouse pointer over each parameter to see what value it has. That's why we have GUIs - to have a global picture on the screen. And looking at your GUI, I don't get any picture at all.

It's a pity, since the sound is great, and I really like the synth, so much I want to buy it, but, as I said, there are so many things going on right now that I think I will pass, at least until the next update, where, as you said, I can get the rings out of the way.

[AdmiralQuality]

It's a pity, since the sound is great, and I really like the synth, so much I want to buy it, but, as I said, there are so many things going on right now that I think I will pass, at least until the next update, where, as you said, I can get the rings out of the way.

Are you on Windows or Mac? You can replace the background easily right now on the Mac.

And okay, but the half-price sale will end at the next update. Just FYI.

[fmr]

It's a pity, since the sound is great, and I really like the synth, so much I want to buy it, but, as I said, there are so many things going on right now that I think I will pass, at least until the next update, where, as you said, I can get the rings out of the way.

Are you on Windows or Mac? You can replace the background easily right now on the Mac.

And okay, but the half-price sale will end at the next update. Just FYI.

I'm on both, but Windows is more and more my main platform.

[topaz]

My guess is because the GUI needs to be flat.

There is a reason that no other plugin has a tilted GUI and its because the text (certainly on my 24" screen) is almost impossible to read.

I used the demo for an hour or so this morning and I can honestly say I needed pain killers afterwards because my head and eyes plain hurt.

Although I admire you for your steadfast long term stance you are obviously losing potential customers and surely that is not a good thing ?

I know you want to have full control and who can blame you ? but really to compete in this overcrowded market we have to cater for our customers somewhat.

and that means having a great gui and a plugin that works on all major hosts.

You already have an amazing sounding synth but sadly it is let down by a very poor Gui and issues with some hosts.

fix these Issues and you have a clear winner

ps, If I had to set a benchmark, then this would be it.

The GUI is pretty much unusable for me.

[AdmiralQuality]

There is a reason that no other plugin has a tilted GUI and its because the text (certainly on my 24" screen) is almost impossible to read.

I used the demo for an hour or so this morning and I can honestly say I needed pain killers afterwards because my head and eyes plain hurt.

Although I admire you for your steadfast long term stance you are obviously losing potential customers and surely that is not a good thing ?

Lots of people like it just fine. Myself included. (This is the thing about you flatness people, you assume you're speaking from a stance of absolute consensus.)

I know you want to have full control and who can blame you ? but really to compete in this overcrowded market we have to cater for our customers somewhat.

Oh, you're a customer now? I must have missed that sale go through.

and that means having a great gui and a plugin that works on all major hosts.

You already have an amazing sounding synth but sadly it is let down by a very poor Gui and issues with some hosts.

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "issues with some hosts". I'm not psychic and I certainly can't address these alleged issues unless you care to bother actually describing what they are.

fix these Issues and you have a clear winner

ps, If I had to set a benchmark, then this would be it.

The GUI is pretty much unusable for me.

If the elements in Poly-Ana were that size, you'd need a 4k display to fit it on! (I think that's bloody ugly by the way. Oh and it IS done in perspective.)

[fmr]

If the elements in Poly-Ana were that size, you'd need a 4k display to fit it on! (I think that's bloody ugly by the way. Oh and it IS done in perspective.)

I agree that example is ugly. But this is not, and has many parameters, and besides being beautiful, it's clear and we can edit without problems. And since the matrices are tiny, and could cause problems, we can zoom them:


Or this one (also, many parameters, but a very clear and uncluttered interface:

[AdmiralQuality]

Can we stop spamming this thread with pictures of other products, please? There's another thread for discussing stuff like this (Poly-Ana 2.x wishlist) here... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5916972

And yes, it's nice, it looks just like the EMS Synthi-A it's cloning. But again, if I did Poly-Ana at the same density as either of these examples it wouldn't fit on your screen. Poly-Ana is way more of a synth than these other examples. So it's not fair to compare their GUIs.

And also, note how you two guys don't agree on what a good example of a good example is. So you see how subjective this is? Whatever I do someone won't like it.

Anyway, I am NOT redoing the GUI at this final stage of this Beta. Contribute these kinds of suggestions in the other thread, please. This one is about the current 1.20 Beta, which is almost over.