New rompler/synth on the way - "Pure Synth Platinum" from GospelMusicians

[iain_morland]

If all of the information is loaded in a single patch, why can't you just load a master patch and then scroll through the individual patches within the patch? Kind of like presets within a Kontakt patch? Does UVI support such a function? Then you don't have to keep loading the same sample set over and over again.

We do something like that in Neo-Soul Keys for UVI, per piano, but it doesn't involve opening individual preset files from the interface. (Read on for the explanation).

The reason we didn't do it here is that Pure Synth Platinum is a much more complex instrument, with presets designed by a team of sound designers, so it would be a lot more complicated to integrate all that information into a single patch.

Neo-Soul Keys is a little different in that the presets are more like different tones and interpretations of a given piano, so it makes more sense for them to be accessible from inside a single patch.

The technical background is that the UVI Workstation won't let us browse directories on the user's system from the scripted interface. Everything has to be saved within the patch, including the entire preset system code. That has advantages, though, because it saves less experienced users from hunting around for folder paths, and enabled us to make a great-looking semi-transparent overlay for preset selection in Neo-Soul Keys. (Kontakt doesn't support anything like that!)

Lastly I should add that we are already enabling free exploration of all the samples, wavetables, and settings specific to various synthesis types and effects, from within any one patch. This is one of the things that sets PSP apart from other libraries for the UVI Workstation: instead of having discrete samples or sounds hard-coded into individual presets, you can access the whole pool of material from any patch.

This makes it really easy to create new sounds by tweaking presets because you're not locked to, for example, a couple of predetermined sample layers in any given patch.

But we're definitely open to feedback -- as are UVI -- and will consider ways to make Pure Synth Platinum even better!

[GospelMusicians]

If all of the information is loaded in a single patch, why can't you just load a master patch and then scroll through the individual patches within the patch? Kind of like presets within a Kontakt patch? Does UVI support such a function? Then you don't have to keep loading the same sample set over and over again.

Great question and yes that is possible. We actually did that kinda with the Neo-Soul Keys.

We would have to create our own preset system, but a task like that would require an incredible amount of work that I'm sure my developer would love to see...joking.

I mean a task like this would probably take 4-5months of work, just to save 2-4 seconds of impatience. That's just not a good business model.

With that being said, we did pre-predict this very discussion of load times. If most users are only interested in patches and sounds, we could leave the large samples to the debs and sound designers, then we could make a Rompler only version that only loads the sounds that were used in the preset and that would load in probably less than a second.

We have requested from UVI a type of Purge button where the user loads The big sample version, but after the patch is made to perfection, then the sound designer hits some type of purge button that completely unloads the unused samples. Then after saving, the patch re-loads only the samples used.

No wait loading is possible, but comes at a cost of being a Rompler only architecture where you only load the samples needed for that preset.

Pure Synth is an architecture and a model that can be adapted however. This is why it took 1-1/2 years to develop. We can do Romplers like Nexus very easy, but you sacrifice control.

[GospelMusicians]

I guess my friend Iain and I answered at the same time

[kbaccki]

So why do we need lightening fast load times...

For one, I suppose that's what we get with hardware, and generally speaking we continuously compare the hardware world to these software equivalents in terms of ease of use, function, quality, etc.

Two, we're all impatient, let's face it. I, for one, appreciate any nanosecond I can save throughout the day. Hopefully those nanoseconds add up to meaningful lots of free time.

More importantly, the very practical purpose is to be able browse through patches to find a sound. If I know I'm looking for a particular type of synth bass sound, but don't have two or three favorites to select from, then I have to flip through presets to find what I'm looking for. I find myself always doing this for keys, pads, basses, drums. Time is of the essence here when you're in the creative flow.

I face the same browse/load problem as I do with other heavyweights -- BFD, Kontakt, etc. -- and even what I would consider lightweights, like Dim Pro. Form this perspective, I think UVI/PSP is at least competitive, given the functionality provided. Yes? No? What are Omnisphere load times like? Halion Sonic? Other similar hybrids?

Here's a low-tech idea for UVI: incorporate canned MP3 audio preview into patch browsing. Auto play the snippets as your flipping through... very fast. This could allow you to very quickly browse through presets to find a certain sound without actually having to load the sounds. I generally know within a half second whether or not a sound is approximately what I'm looking for, so all I really need is a representative audio snippet first before exploring the patch further. Vendor products could ship with one or two audio clips, and the patch browser could allow users to attach their own, replace the stock ones, etc. Obviously, this is a different browser than what UVI workstation provides now, which I believe is strictly file based with some additional support for "favorites" and other soft links... but basically, you're just browsing through m5p files, AFAIK.

MP3 snippets would be very low tech, relatively simple solution to a definite requirement, which is to browse sounds quickly.

[GospelMusicians]

So why do we need lightening fast load times...
Here's a low-tech idea for UVI: incorporate canned MP3 audio preview into patch browsing. Auto play the snippets as your flipping through... very fast. This could allow you to very quickly browse through presets to find a certain sound without actually having to load the sounds. I generally know within a half second whether or not a sound is approximately what I'm looking for, so all I really need is a representative audio snippet first before exploring the patch further. Vendor products could ship with one or two audio clips, and the patch browser could allow users to attach their own, replace the stock ones, etc. Obviously, this is a different browser than what UVI workstation provides now, which I believe is strictly file based with some additional support for "favorites" and other soft links... but basically, you're just browsing through m5p files, AFAIK.

MP3 snippets would be very low tech, relatively simple solution to a definite requirement, which is to browse sounds quickly.

That actually is a good idea. Technically, it would not be possible to pre-load the patch and offer a snippet within the framework of the patch. What we would have to do is create an MP3 snippet of each patch and create a custom patch script that is solely dedicated to browsing patches. That is relatively possible. Or just make some MP3's and put them in the same folder structure to browse, but I don't think there is any way to browse per the patch.

As we have said though...If you are just interested in just presets and not creating, we could create a Rompler only version that would load in less than a second.

[basslinemaster]

Is that 2 second load time from an SSD or an HD? If from HD, it doesn't matter at all, if from SSD even, 2 seconds is nothing for me, I would be more than happy. I'm used to some Kontakt patches taking a lot longer than that!

[kbaccki]

The technical background is that the UVI Workstation won't let us browse directories on the user's system from the scripted interface. Everything has to be saved within the patch, including the entire preset system code. That has advantages, though, because it saves less experienced users from hunting around for folder paths, and enabled us to make a great-looking semi-transparent overlay for preset selection in Neo-Soul Keys. (Kontakt doesn't support anything like that!)

I think you made the right engineering decision here. The downside is that you can only load patches as fast as the engine will allow you to load and init each patch. The upside is that your software architecture is not burdened by locking yourself into a proprietary patch system -- this would translate to substantial maintenance overhead in bug fixing corrupt patch saves and the like, adding new patch ave functionality as UVI enhances patch capability, etc., etc. Not to mention: I actually want individual m5p files so I can move them around, categorize them at will, email to my buddy, etc. With your own patch system you'd need some way export individual patches, which would require filesystem access, which you don't have. Anyway... I think sticking with m5p is the right way to go, perhaps unless you were dealing with a lightweight, simpler type of synth, where saving a whole monolithic patch matrix would be fast and lightweight.

One more comment on the UVI engine itself... I am impressed with the UVI engine CPU performance. Last night I created a totally over the top synth pad string arp monster multi... 5 PSP patches, all listening to omni, sounding at one. I started at one patch, noticed the CPU hanging around 2% regardless of how much I was playing, added another patch noticed the CPU wasn't affected much at all... got up to 5 patches and the CPU stayed consistently at around 5-6%, with min/max of 4% and 7%. This is on Win7 x64, i7 3770k. I did notice that memory footprint climbed significantly with each patch. UVI engine is like 400MB, which is an OK number, but with 5 patches in the multi the footprint was up to 2+GB. Not a problem on my 32GB machine, but was just a bit surprised that it climbed as much as it did... I guess there's quite a bit of overhead per patch. Still, I think the CPU/memory cost per quality ratio is right up there, so no real complaints, just an observation...

[basslinemaster]

MP3 snippets would be very low tech, relatively simple solution to a definite requirement, which is to browse sounds quickly.

That is an excellent idea!

[kbaccki]

Is that 2 second load time from an SSD or an HD? If from HD, it doesn't matter at all, if from SSD even, 2 seconds is nothing for me, I would be more than happy. I'm used to some Kontakt patches taking a lot longer than that!

I have the PSP demo running from 7200 RPM HD. I typically load my UVI stuff from SSD, but the demo is not on there... My 2 second timing is strictly counting one one thousand, two one thousand... But I think ~2 sec is accurate. The loading happens "so fast" that the load progress meter doesn't even really do anything now.

[kbaccki]

So why do we need lightening fast load times...
Here's a low-tech idea for UVI: incorporate canned MP3 audio preview into patch browsing. Auto play the snippets as your flipping through... very fast. This could allow you to very quickly browse through presets to find a certain sound without actually having to load the sounds. I generally know within a half second whether or not a sound is approximately what I'm looking for, so all I really need is a representative audio snippet first before exploring the patch further. Vendor products could ship with one or two audio clips, and the patch browser could allow users to attach their own, replace the stock ones, etc. Obviously, this is a different browser than what UVI workstation provides now, which I believe is strictly file based with some additional support for "favorites" and other soft links... but basically, you're just browsing through m5p files, AFAIK.

MP3 snippets would be very low tech, relatively simple solution to a definite requirement, which is to browse sounds quickly.

That actually is a good idea. Technically, it would not be possible to pre-load the patch and offer a snippet within the framework of the patch. What we would have to do is create an MP3 snippet of each patch and create a custom patch script that is solely dedicated to browsing patches. That is relatively possible. Or just make some MP3's and put them in the same folder structure to browse, but I don't think there is any way to browse per the patch.

As we have said though...If you are just interested in just presets and not creating, we could create a Rompler only version that would load in less than a second.

Personally, I'm not interested in a rompler version... but now that you mention it, that may be something you might consider for an extra revenue stream. PSP LE... actually, not a bad idea. Maybe $75-$100 with upgrade option. Gotta be careful to not undercut the full product, of course.

RE: mp3 patch preview... I'm thinking the UVI browser would have to be overhauled to extend it to include the snippet preview, associate the snippets with patches, etc. Maybe they would need a "patch database" of sorts to pull it off... or maybe they could just extend m5p to include external references to images and mp3s. So... not a minor undertaking... but could be really really cool and useful.

[basslinemaster]

Is there a demo version of PSP available? You mentioned it in one of the first posts, and others appear to have it, but I can't find it.

[GospelMusicians]

Is there a demo version of PSP available? You mentioned it in one of the first posts, and others appear to have it, but I can't find it.

Yea...We do have a demo version, but not readily open to the public. It's hidden, but available. As we said earlier, from a business standpoint, there are pros and cons about offering trials. This is just our experience...I'm sure other devs have a different view.

Here you go: http://store.gospelmusicians.com/Pure_Synth_Trial/. Make sure to follow the authorization instructions on the bottom of the invoice.

[iain_morland]

Great discussion everyone - thank you!

[Saukar30]

I had a chance to go over the demo and I wanna say yall put yall foot into it!

My computer is newer (Dell PC, 12 GB Ram, i7-3770 3.4ghz Processor, 2 TB HD) so I usually have no issues with loading plugins. Loading the intial PSP patch took about 6 seconds to load, the rest of the presets on average about 3 or 4 seconds which isn't too shabby. The layout is truly what blows me away because the workstation vibe is omnipresent here. It is very simple to find where things are located and how to get to them. **Just have to remember to make sure you're on the correct oscillator**

To be honest, the presets aren't the significant part of this plugin (at least judging from the demo). I wanted to state that because a lot of people will probably expect stellar presets and that's how they judge the sound of their plugin. The significant part here to me is the oscillators & what can be done with them from a user standpoint. I listened to most of them individually on their own with no fx & modulation, and these are pretty much all any one needs to make music with. Now... that is approaching it from a workstation point of view. PSP isn't going to have multi-layered round robined realistic instruments. This isn't the purpose and there are many more products hat shine in that area. Neither is this a modualr swiss cheese synth where you can put anything to anything. The goal of this is for SIMPLE synth/sampler manipulation... at least how I see it. As stated on the videos... think more on a Nexus level.

From using UVI Workstation and some demo packs, I'm pretty familiar already with what's possible with the effects & modulation. That Oberheim filter is so juicy though. I'm glad it's included from Mach 5... along with the ensemble. The reverbs are stellar as well... as one would have a lot of ground to cover as far as space or effects are concerned. All of the knobs/levers for effects & other functions can be assigned to MIDI with a right click. It would've been nice to include aftertouch in the midi control list as well.. but maybe that might be a limitation of the UVI Workstation itself. You can't go modulation crazy with this (the lfos are hardwired to certain parameters) but is by no means a serious concern to me.

You can do key switching however, but that would involve using 2 or more parts in the UVI Workstaion. That's not an issue as you can make more parts as needed.

I like simple with power & usability. This is exactly what PSP is. It's not meant to be a Kontakt, Sampletank, Nexus or Sylenth killer. It fits snuggly in between. This would be perfect for someone looking for sounds that they can create from scratch and not have to use a lot of different synths. Just using 1 oscillator can give you great results. Again... it's more of an instrument rather than a database. I lost track of time tweaking & playing with this and I didn't feel as if I had to force myself or relearn the wheel. Unfortunately, I'm unable to get in on the opening promotion right now due to some financial things that just came up, but I'll definitely have to pick this up at the close of the year.

You guys have done a great job with this and I wish you a lot of success!

[GospelMusicians]

I had a chance to go over the demo and I wanna say yall put yall foot into it!

**Just have to remember to make sure you're on the correct oscillator**

You can do key switching however, but that would involve using 2 or more parts in the UVI Workstaion. That's not an issue as you can make more parts as needed.


You guys have done a great job with this and I wish you a lot of success!

Hey Saukar30 thanks man.....Yes, you are right, even I forget about changing the oscillator number at times .

You can actually do keyswithing on the synth without needing to make more parts on the UVI Workstation (See attached). You can also do crossfading between velocity layers.

Thanks a lot for the review....More presets to come!