Closest thing to Cobalt (Leslie Sanford) (64bit update)

[fandango]

I absolutely LOVE Cobalt, and I use it in pretty much everything.

However, it is now the only remaining VST in my collection which is:
1. Not available in 64bit (I have jBridge)
2. No longer actively supported.

Like the old Sonitus:fx suite, I can't ever imagine a day when Cubase will say "Oi! Plugin is too old. Bog off." but it could happen.

What would be my options for alternatives, if I was actually planning to take some presets from Cobalt and manually try and recreate them in another synth?

I guess a lot depends on the original 26 waveforms in Cobalt that were resynthesized, and hence, limits my options? (perhaps simply to Cobalt and nothing else?)

[EDIT - The very awesome Les Sanford has updated Cobalt to 64bit for previous customers and it works a treat. ]

[Ingonator]

I just had to take a look as i am not really familiar with Cobalt:
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/cobalt_ ... und_design

Concerning PWM for all waveforms there is e.g. Tone2 ElectraX which could do the same and it got lots of additional features too. It's also available for 64-bit and also both Windows and Mac. FM is possible with it too.

If you find samples of the waveforms in Cobalt (or do them yourself...) you could import them into ElectraX either as samples or with the resynthesis feature.

Another option could be Synthmaster 2.6. Besides tons of features and included waveforms you could create your own wavetables from 2 up to 16 waveforms (again you could use the waveforms from Cobalt if you are able to get them).
Synthmaster got additional modulation OSCs for FM and AM purposes.

With Cableguys Curve 2 you could draw you own waveforms and also morph between two of them in each oscillator. It could do FM too.

I am sure there are several other choices depending on which sounds you search for...


Ingo

[Numanoid]

If you can do with a sample based instrument, I think Digital Love Child by SynthMagic for Kontakt is on the same vibe as Cobalt (that is digital synth's with analog tricks up their sleeve). Cobalt is inspired by for example Korg DW-8000 and Kawai K3, while DLC takes it cues from similar machines like Korg DSS-1 and Kawai K5.

http://www.synthmagic.co.uk/dlc.htm

Costs just £20

[osiris]

Leslie's a great guy and very smart. I know he programmed(wrote)the code for Cobalt himself. I believe a lot of people still use his templates.

[fandango]

Apologies for the delay in replying.

Ingonator: Thank you for the input and suggestions. Cobalt is just the .DLL, so I'm guessing the waveforms are built in. I don't know if I loaded the whole .DLL into a wave editor whether I might be able to find a sequence of samples that look like waveforms (assuming they're not compressed by the compiler). I guess I could just ask Leslie as well?

I also own ImageLine Sytrus, a subtractive (and FM) synth which I think might allow PWM (I'll have to check when I get home).

Numanoid: That's a good point, I own Kontakt and if I had the waveforms I guess I could fill out the rest very quickly. But once again, I'm not actually too familiar with building custom presets in Kontakt (I've over-relied on sample libraries all these years) and I don't know whether waveforms can access and influence other waveforms in the pipeline, I'll have to investigate.

osiris: Indeed, I'm actually looking at his C# MIDI code as I'm thinking of writing a little MIDI logger with drag & drop for hosts that don't support retrospective record. An awesome guy, shame he's not about here much.

[Ingonator]

Apologies for the delay in replying.

Ingonator: Thank you for the input and suggestions. Cobalt is just the .DLL, so I'm guessing the waveforms are built in. I don't know if I loaded the whole .DLL into a wave editor whether I might be able to find a sequence of samples that look like waveforms (assuming they're not compressed by the compiler). I guess I could just ask Leslie as well?

But you could sample the waveforms yourself like with every other synth...


Ingo

[1-2-Many]

Or he could find a suitable replacement install it, and continue making music

I came across this mental issue recently...and decided to move on. It's easy to get caught on a certain plugin and not be able to let it go when its time has passed. I've got a lot of plugins that I absolutely LOVE which are now abandoned, Cobalt being one.

In the end I focused on all the great plugins I still have that are alive and well...I'll just use them. Plus it helps me to weed out my overstuffed plugin directory. For old projects 'render track to audio' is your friend

[Numanoid]

Or he could find a suitable replacement install it, and continue making music

But is exactly what the OP is doing, looking for new alternatives for a plugin that has been discontinued.

[1-2-Many]

Or he could find a suitable replacement install it, and continue making music

But is exactly what the OP is doing, looking for new alternatives for a plugin that has been discontinued.

I was responding to Ingonator's suggestion that he undertake a project of sampling Cobalt's waveforms and import them into another synth. And the OP is not exactly doing as you say, since he is entertaining the notion of "Frankensteining Cobalt"

[fandango]

Ingonator: Ah... like this? (i.e., pure waveform from synth, render out?)



Yeah, I guess that wouldn't take too long.

1-2-Many: I think you're probably right. I'm beginning to turn into one of those people I used to tease on KVR, with the golden ears and arguing the sound 'betterness' of a particular plugin without any actual proof of why. And I don't know why that is, even though other synths do the same thing, there's something about Cobalt that just sounds great and I don't know why I can't seem to replicate it in other synths.

[cosmosis]

I just tried to sample some waveforms from Cobalt and was somehow succesful. They all sound brighter in Wave! and Toxic3, but Cobalt tends to always sound darker overall, so I'm not sure what's going on. Also while some sound all clean, some produce a buzz in addition to the waveform, I don't know if I didn't get one exact cycle or what. Im using Audition 1.5, and sometimes it's hard to see where the cycle repeats.

Also, I'm not sure what would be the best way to sample the waveforms. I mean, is there an optimal note/range? Does Cobalt use a base sample and stretch up/down? If so, is there a way to find out which note triggers the original sample? This is pretty interesting stuff


BTW I just chose waveform in Cobalt, with all FX and mods off, filter open, no reso and played one note (C3 IIRC). Render, load in Audition, crop and zoon till I see the waveform and samples and trim untill I see a single cycle.

[pocvecem]

Ok, i guess that Cobalt was closely modelled after a DW8000 and so there are some special things to consider. I hope i remember right and i don't claim that all of the following is completely true.

1) The digital waveforms in a DW8000 (and many other similar synths from that time) aren't sampled waves as we know them today. They were extracted from samples and then resynthesized to digital wave data. I'm not sure how this digital data is then interpreted to make a waveform, sorry. Guess it's a additive method to recreate the harmonic content.

2) The oscillators in DW8000 were bandlimited. If i remember right they don't produce frequencies above 12khz. Didn't find any info about the actual sampling frequency and the filter cutoff of the digital osc section. Indeed there are higher frequencies but they are caused by aliasing.

If you sample a single wavecycle and play it back in a sampler all frequencies are equally transposed. So the higher note you play the brighter the sample will sound. Same effect occurs when you import such a single cycle wave into synths like Synthmaster, Alchemy ....
To avoid this you have to sample every note or at least every second.
In Alchemy it's rather easy to get a "vintage sound". You can adjust the number of playback additive oscillators. 32 - 64 sine waves seem to give a good result. Even better when you modulate this amount by keytracking (higher notes - less oscs).

Cheers,
Gerald

[pocvecem]

Totally forgot.
Good alternatives could be:

1. SQ8L, freeware and low on cpu. Absolutely nails the digital-analog hybrid sound of a Ensoniq SQ80. http://www.buchty.net/ensoniq/#sq8l

2. Waldorf PPG2.V, low budget and low cpu demand. Good digital sounds and wavetable scanning.

3. PPG3.v, not a cheapo and rather hard to cpu. But very good "character" hybrid sound and many many more options (wavetable scanning, sample playback).

[sunhome]

Kilo Hearts One
http://kilohearts.com/products/one

[Numanoid]

Kilo Hearts One
http://kilohearts.com/products/one

...and a nice little deal here
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383370