KVR Audio

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:45 pm

Ingonator wrote:Anybody tried to use wavetables in either PPg Wave 2.V or PPg Wave 3.v for this?
Maybe i will give that a try soon.

Ingo

That would be one way to go I suppose, but you'd need someone to construct that wavetable, no? And given that there is no agreement yet as to how it's done, I dunno!

I've done my attempts in DUNE, which having read around the subject must be quite close. I do have a D110, but haven't got the time to boot it up atm to compare. Maybe tomorrow.

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:47 pm

cytospur wrote:
zorniko wrote:
cytospur wrote:Yeah, it's difficult to show what's going on in such a limited space. A lower frequency would be better though
Yes, I choose the lowest.
FFT - you must be more concrete
I see. What program did you use to grab the waves? They don't look like what I see with Signal Analyser. What I mean by FFT is Fourier transforms of the wave files. I don't have time to do this myself atm, maybe tomorrow.

Fast Fourier Transform - ok, but still - pretty vast space... many ways and definitions, algos, formulas, filter, etc. Maybe you should do what you think, and I'll make those pics for you...

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:52 pm

I can make pics myself, I suppose, just don't have the time atm. I would like to know what program you are using though.

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:55 pm

Adobe Audition or Sound Forge. Then - press "Print Screen", make new bmp file, open it, paste. Adjust, cut, resize and voila...

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:01 am

Thanks!

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:01 am

Awesome detective work with the D-50 'mystery PWM'

. I'm fascinated with obscure oscillator options in synth history.

Regarding the dynamic nature of PWM, wouldn't it be better to take a picture of the wave at various pulsewidths for comparison, like I did? Admittedly, it was quite a tedious task, and took almost 40 minutes!

Muzik 4 Machines wrote:
Sendy wrote:
EDIT: Here's a question maybe for Urs or anyone else interested in obscure Roland waveforms that has a JP-8000. It's Triangle waveform has a PWM parameter (NOT the triangle mod waveform) which seems like it's doing some gentle cross between FM and PWM to the triangle wave... Anyone got any clue what's going on with it? (I can make a waveform diagram if needed)
isnt it like from up saw at 1 end, triangle in the middle and down saw at the other end?
my fav wave from my jp8080 was the feedback osc, but that's deserves it's own thread lol

No, that's what the Alesis ION does... The JP-8000 just seems to sort of crease up and become a bit brighter, like some kind of FM... From the manual:

Their drawing of the waveform is accurate, I checked

. It's actually a really nice mod, it stays very warm and triangle-like, but getting fuller and a bit brigher (but not trebley bright).

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:09 am

I think this image might be quite pertinent:

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:14 am

Sendy wrote:...wouldn't it be better to take a picture of the wave at various pulsewidths for comparison

Anybody can do this fast - I wrote my way in a previous post (any editor, print screen, bmp, paste...).
Anyway, thanks for checking that Roland's pic

And thanks for the info.

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:17 am

cytospur wrote:I think this image might be quite pertinent:

yes, pulse + sine are "the base", just as bstageboss explained

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:18 am

Can you enlarge it a little?

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:23 am

zorniko wrote:Can you enlarge it a little?

Unfortunately not, but it seems from that picture that the saw comes from a ring modulation between a pulse and a sine/triangle as I postulated earlier.

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:25 am

cytospur wrote:Try ring modulating a variable width pulse with either a sine (or triangle wave both set to the same frequency.

bstageboss wrote:The sawtooth wave you hear is actually a sine wave ring modulated by the square wave.

cytospur · Post by **cytospur** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:37 am

I'm off to bed now. I'll join in again tomorrow

zorniko · Post by **zorniko** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:04 am

Sendy wrote:The JP-8000 just seems to sort of crease up and become a bit brighter, like some kind of FM... From the manual:

I approx. achieved this pic

(on Synth1) also with the ring mod: osc1 sine, osc2 square (-12), 0:100, p/w 127, LP24 (not fully open)...

https://sites.google.com/site/zornikokv ... P8ktri.mp3

AdmiralQuality · Post by **AdmiralQuality** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:38 am

Here's Poly-Ana's method of PWMing a saw (or any other shaped wave). This smooth "squishing" is obviously completely different than the Roland method, but you should be able to achieve that as well by AM of a variable-width square with a sine, as shown in the 4th image below. Osc 3 is being ring modulated (AM) by Osc 2. Along with PWM of Osc 3, you can also get some interesting changes to this sound by altering the phase of either oscillator. Pitch and octave settings too.

Is there any synth that can do roland's Saw PWM?