ArtsAcoustic Reverb 1.6.0 released

[mellotronaut]

Here is a response i just got by mail from artsacoustic :

Hi Julien,

unfortunatelty you did indeed understand something wrong.
The licensing, valid from the date of the release of version 1.6 has been changed in the way, that when someone wants to sell the new version (1.6) second hand, he has to wait 6 months before he can actually sell it and he has to pay a license transfer fee (50€), in order to sell it. The difference to older license transfers is, that this makes the new owner a "real", full ArtsAcoustic customer, therefore he can benefit from further updating the product, customer support and sales actions/promotional discounts, etc. that are done just for our customers.

Before the licensing changes to the new rules, older transfered licenses (pre 1.6) were done by us pureley based on good will (the license text stated that the transfer is not allowed). However, the transfered licenses in these cases became NFR versions, thus, as the name says, it is soley the license of just this exact version the new user (in this case you) owns, which is then Not For Resale. If that version would be updatable, it of course wouldn't be this version anymore. So in essence, you bought second hand just this particular version, which became an NFR version on transfer. An NFR version is naturally not updatable, just because of that - it's an NFR version, that's a usual thing.

I'm sorry, i know, not exactly what you want to hear, but that is how it is. I hope you understand. If you still have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
Nick at ArtsAcoustic

Seriously, nick & artsacoustic team : do you really expect to stay in business for a long time with that kind of policy ?
This is not what i call offering a way out to your customers, this is what i call loosing your customers.

i have several NFR licenses and everything gets free updates till there is a 2.0 (or 3.0 etc.) for which i have to pay an upgrade fee. then it's no longer NFR. sometimes one has to pay for a .5 update like Steinberg did with Cubase last year, but never for a .6 update.
ArtsAcoustic ruins its reputation, which is based on the quality of their products. When AA Reverb came out, there was almost no competition. now there's a lot.
now i can sell AA Reverb 1.5, but will the buyer get updates after having paid the 50€/$ fee?
Btw., Nick, you haven't said exactely the truth. in the original license transfer email it is stated (sorry, i have to cite again):

"Dear valued customer,

Following you will find the details on how to download, install and activate the product.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IMPORTANT:
Please keep this email at a safe place, print it, or store it to an external media, as it contains your serial number for the product and the links below are valid for downloading future versions, too. (If this may change, you will be notified(letters marked as fat by me, mello).)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

___


*Notes
- This is a license transfered version.
- Further license transfer is not allowed. "

the only restriction was no further transfer. and i should have been notified about further changes. Dear Nick, what you're saying in your mail to budweiser is not the same, is it?

so please give us second hand owners from before December, the 27th, 2012 the updates for free till v.2.0 or a successor appears or let us sell the license and the new owner gets free updates after having paid the fee!

and please give an official statement, which is reliable and true here in this forum and via email to every second hand license owner.

thank you.

[budweiser]

i have several NFR licenses and everything gets free updates till there is a 2.0 (or 3.0 etc.) for which i have to pay an upgrade fee. then it's no longer NFR.

That's usualy how things works.
In summary, artsacoustic, despite the fact you fuc*ed some of your customers and gave the brand a bad publicity for, let's say, nothing, we have :
- if you have a 1.5 reverb you bought second hand,you can sell it, but the buyer will have to pay 50e and will stick with his 1.5 without any chance to update, despite the transfer fee. Don't play with words, he's fuc*ed (but he is informed, that was not really the case before)
- if you buy a 1.6 you will be able to update, to resell, and the second hand buyer will probably be able to update and to resell, but only if you don't change your eula one more time.
Something is really unfair, to me.

This is pitiful considering that concerns a small minority of your customers (second hand, 1.5, how much are we ?), and i truly don't get it : you don't take our 50e fee, so this is a loss, and you loose 100% of us, as i won't buy from you anymore and i seriously doubt anyone in that case will, so this is a second loss.
Summary : 0+0

[mellotronaut]

sometimes things are hard to believe

[zvenx]

I bought my license directly so this doesn't affect me personally. But like others have said way more eloquently that i am, this position is unique, harmful and leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Rsp

[Compyfox]

Since version 1.6 doesn't work for me, I can't check on what "license type" I am currently.


Uhm... when is the 1.6.1 update due?
If there's a v2, I'd love to stick with AAR. It's still a great reverb among all of them on the market, so I want to support the devs.

[mellotronaut]

Since version 1.6 doesn't work for me, I can't check on what "license type" I am currently.

well, if you bought your Reverb license second hand before 2012/12/27 and you got 1.6 from AA, then you seem to be a more valued customer than other second hand guys, maybe because you're working as a sound engineer and producer and they probably think, you're worth the 'effort'. quod licet Jovi non licet bovi.

Uhm... when is the 1.6.1 update due?
If there's a v2, I'd love to stick with AAR. It's still a great reverb among all of them on the market, so I want to support the devs.

it is a great reverb ... if it wasn't, i'd just move on.

[Compyfox]

So... currently my understanding is...

1) all users that got s/h (2nd hand) licenses prior to 1.6 (or 2012/12/27), which were equal to NFR licenses, are now "regular users"
2) users that were buying s/h licenses post that date, also have NFR licenses, but they were not converted to "normal" licenses with the release of v1.6
3) users that bought a fresh s/h license are locked for 6 months to resell, and then there is a fee due as well.
4) users that bought licenses through regular channels (at ArtsAcoustic directly) don't have any issues.



From a quick browsing through the thread, I see that certain users in here are denied a free update for a used license. Now this is something I do not quite understand to be honest.

I remember that s/h licenses needed to be clocked into the ArtsAcoustic database as well, so that "new users" were informed of updates, or were even able to download recent versions. There was also a new NFR key generated if I remember the procedure.

Now that new thing is a bit... troublesome.


Actually, Spectrasonics had similar issues with s/h versions until they dropped that and said "you know... pay us the fee, and you're a regular customer - then you can update for free to your hearts content, and have an upgrade path available as well". A valued customer is the best customer. No matter how he got on board.

So... in this particular example, it seems to be a two edged blade.



Did either of you even try to "recover" your license through the online system?

I ask because I didn't get an information that AAR was updated, so I wanted a link sent to my account. It took the system a couple of hours, but I got my license forwarded - only to realise "whoops - WL7 and C7 doesn't like it (blacklist)". An info mail arrived only 2 hours later btw.

Unfortunately I miss a backup of 1.5 due to HDD issues, so I'm currently a bit stuck. But else, no problem.



I hope ArtsAcoustic is debating that issue. Because I barely read news from developer pages, and I didn't get a mail either. But I'm having AAR and BigRock for years now. Always running rock solid - up until today.

I'm even more surprised that ArtsAcoustic is having such issues currently. I remember days where the devs said "we don't need Beta Testers, our software run out of the box" (that was at a rare visit at Musikmesse years ago) - and there are so many users currently that can't even use v1.6 - and others where the update was prohibited.


This is so unlike ArtsAcoustic to be honest.

[mellotronaut]

i updated AA Reverb at least one time, if not twice, before 1.6 came out. 1.6 seems to need a new serial. i haven't got a note and i haven't got a serial, but when i asked for the serial, Alexander sent this infamous mail, i cite on page 4. i replied to his reply, but i haven't got a reply yet, 1 1/2 weeks later.
all customers are equal, but some are more equal than others. 'valued customers'? pffft.

thanks for taking the time to understand our issue, Compyfox! you took more time than anybody from AA.

[nick at artsacoustic]

Hi All,
there's a lot of missunderstandings floating around in regard to the new licensing change and due to private issues (sickness and a surgery) i am only now able to clear up some stuff:

First off, i am very sorry how unlucky the release of the ArtsAcoustic Reverb went, along with it the missunderstandable licensing system change, now that i read it again. We were actually really exiting, finally being able to release the 64bit version and the enhancements we wanted to do. It was a nightmare to port it over to 64bit and took a lot of work. And now that bug. We tested nearly four weeks with betatesters all over the world, and there were no reports. Basically what happened was, that the compiler excluded some few cpus from the optimisation process, which turned out to be an unvalid dll on the respective processors, which appereantly none of our betatesters used, so naturally everything worked fine for them.

We are with highest priority on fixing this bug, release will be as fast as possible.
In the mean time it is a good idea to revert back to v.1.5, which works safe.
I will talk to alex, maybe we can make v.1.5. accessable online again, so users who lost their install notification emails containing the log ins, can obtain these from our site again. We'll be back to you as soon as we have a solution.



Now, on the license change, here's what it is all about:
Prior to ArtsAcoustic Reverb v.1.6 our licensing system did not allow license transfer, which is written in the licensing terms upon installing the software. Nevertheless, on request we mostly did it, at no additional cost for both the new and the old user. The transfered version then became NFR.
Let's first clear up what the term "NFR version" usually means. It means, that you cannot sell this version anymore, as well as this is exactly what you get - this version. By recieveng an NFR version you are allowed to use that version freely, just as you desire. You are however not eligible to request support, updates or any kind of sales actions, etc., that the company does for registered ArtsAcoustic customers, as you simply are not an ArtsAcoustic customer. And that has a reason: You have actually not purchased from ArtsAcoustic. We have not gained any profit whatsoever from the license transfer. Instead we actually have to work for the fact that the new owner actually recieves a valid license.
Now, of course there is exeptions tightning the rules, and some NFR's one might have recieved from whatever companies are being updated - but that happens on pure good will, is decided case by case and is not usual.
So, upon recieving the delivery instructions email of the transfered license, the user can clearly read, that this now version is an NFR verson.

However, we were not happy about this licensing scheme, for various reasons, also for the fact that we are of course not interrested in our plugins being spread over the market with second hand licenses, but mainly because we wanted the future second hand license users to benefit from being a regular ArtsAcoustic customer. So we decided to change the licensing. This change is valid from the point on ArtsAcoustic Reverb v.1.6. was released, which means, that transfered versions prior 1.6. are not included.

The licensing terms as of yet are as followed:

- An original license can only be transferred once. Further license transfers are not allowed.
- upon purchase the license cannot be transferred before 6 months are over.
- For the seller there is a license fee to be paid, which is 50€ (inkl.VAT)/50USD
- After the license has been transferred, the seller is not allowed to use the product any longer.
- The new owner recieves a full valid license of the product, which is a full version (instead of an NFR version). The new owner becomes a valid customer of ArtsAcoustic, just as if he would have bought the product at our store, which means he can request support, benefilt from whatsoever sales actions we do for the customers, etc.

We believe that this is more than fair, in respect of what the custome gets, when he buys from us or used. The custome can install and use our products simultanesly on all computers he uses in his studio, as long as it is not a rental studio. The user can download and ínstall all versions that are availlable, vst osx, au, vst windows, and this will stay valid for future formats we might support. The custome only has to deal with a simple serial number, no dongle hassle, no challenge response, no machine id, etc. And up to now we have never charged for updates so far. There were at least 2 updates which included new room algorithms and quite a bunch of new features and quite an amount of new presets, meaning at least these two updates were not only maintenance, but with real value that easily makes another major version or even a new product in other companies.

However, i all honesty i say clearly that we should have stated this way more clearly. Reading the licensing terms again it can be stated more clear, and that is what we will do. So more details about the progress will probably follow tomorrow, latest tuesday. Ontop of that, if i recall it correctly (i might be wrong on that), some NFR/license tranfered users accidentially recieved update notification emails for v1.6. This was not intended. We are sorry about that.

A note for the ones who claim that the license transfer fee is too high, it's simple. We are not selling our products to be traded with. We want you to use our software because you actually love our products. If you don't like our products, which is completely valid, just don't buy them. We have fully uncrippled demo versions for download that you can evaluate as long as you want. So if you buy our product because you like them, the product doesn't become worse over the time, thanks to the fact that it is software. Should you nevertheless want to sell our product, we want to be as fair and supportive as can be to the new owner, that's why we have changed the lincese policy according to the fact, that he becomes a full customer of ArtsAcoustic.

Btw, right after the release of the bugfixed ArtsAcoustic Reverb we are finishing on the long awaited updates for the CL-Series and Bigrock. After that, full concentration goes to finish Vi-Rex Pro.


So now, i hope i have lifted the fog a bit, i am sure, alex might have to add something to my explanation, stuff i might have forgotten to say now.
Again, we are sorry on how all that went and how long it took to come back to you with clarifying words, but since the server-hack of our online system, everything went quite quirky, keeping us in constant, unpredictable trouble. Of course all this wasn't intended to happen this way. However, soon everything is back to normal, then we will concentrate on more positive actions.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I've never heard of an NFR license not being updatable in .x releases. Ever. This is not usual. NFR means not for resale, that's it. I feel really bad for anyone who got stuck with a non-updatable license, especially when it was only 32 bit!

I can understand having a transfer fee, but 50 euros, man that's steep.

[sqigls]

A valued customer is the best customer. No matter how he got on board.

I think a 64bit update is a good thing you could do for your 'customers' who are stuck with a NFR license. I understand you Nick, but it's a bit harsh in my opinion.

I bought your software to use. But what if I get cancer? And need to sell all of my shit so I can pay for treatment? What if I lose my job and need to pay rent? etc etc I just don't see how taking such a hard line can be good for business. I have the money to support companies such as Sonnox etc, but I don't, because of their resell policy. Sometimes I think a software is AWESOME, but after a month, it just won't fit into my productions properly, so I try to get as much of my money back that I can. And some lucky bugger who can't normally afford to spend so much gets a bargain. Whoop de doo. I understand the stance of AA, because the plugs are worth it. But pissing people off will just make them find a cracked version. Surely!?

If the transfers are such a pain, set up a system like Audio Damage, automatic. If the person is going to buy a license on the marketplace for example, it's because they can't afford a full version. So how are you losing out? They weren't going to buy from you anyway.

and yes, 50 euros is steep.

[Qatok]

well, bad luck i guess. I didn't recieved the key either. But after i've emailed license@artsacoustic, i've got they key on next day.

[mellotronaut]

Dear Nick,

you're ignoring your own transfer email again:

"Dear valued customer,

Following you will find the details on how to download, install and activate the product.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IMPORTANT:
Please keep this email at a safe place, print it, or store it to an external media, as it contains your serial number for the product and the links below are valid for downloading future versions, too. (If this may change, you will be notified(letters marked as fat by me, mello).)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

___


*Notes
- This is a license transfered version.
- Further license transfer is not allowed. "

i knew, it was NFR (because i can read!), but as you can read above, i was entitled to get further updates. so please give me these updates! this is really incredible. i wouldn't have bought this second hand license, if there were no updates. i must have been a fool, if i had!
NFR never ment no updates at least in the email, i got from you with my license and the links to updates and you didn't notify me about any changes voluntarily. you should have given an affordable upgrade path at least. 50€ is too steep.
so to make hopefully everybody happy: please give us second hand license owners, who bought AA Reverb before 2012/12/27, an upgrade to 1.6 + (till 1.99999 ...) for a one time fee of 20€/25$.
if this seems to be too generous in your eyes, then let us sell AA Reverb and the new owner will receive 1.6 + updates after having paid the 50€/50$ transfer fee.

[Compyfox]

I also recall that Betatesters got NFR's, not full licenses.
What about them?


Again, I seem to have an NFR (too long ago how I got AAR to be honest), yet I could get v1.6, which sadly does not(!) work in either Cubase or Wavelab.

Why not say "folks - NFR simply means 'not for resale for 6 months' from now on - but you can still update", and leave it at that?

I mean prior to January 2013, you did this all manually - no fees involved. After that date, 50 quids as fee (which pretty much everyone does by now - whether or not it's fair lies on a different ballpark). Yet these licenses are still NFR.



Now... how I understand it, and I don't want to piss up on anyone's turf, but each NFR "user" prior to getting 1.6 as either regular license OR s/h license is funked. No matter if he/she paid a license transfer fee.



To be honest...
The best you can do now for damage control are two things:

a) get AAR v1.6 working. And I don't actually believe the "engine" or "CPU" bug. Because one of your Beta Testers must have at least one Cubase license and/or an Intel i7 CPU. Else I don't consider this a throughout Betatest. (I am betatesting for several companies, so I know the drill - and yes, I do have an Intel i7 920 and Cubendo/Wavelab - heck it doesn't even start in C.Budde's VSTPlugin Analyser!)

b) drop the NFR nonsense from "pre 1.6" and start from scratch. You have a loving userbase. You currently scare away your users, if not downright repress them. People revived AAR recently with new presets (after the rumor with v1.6 and new room algo's came up). Let the users decide what's right rather than restricting them (copyprotection schemes are a different topic though). Else I fear a debate in terms of a "resale law" thing that came up in the Marketplace.



Take a slice from Spectrasonics:

They don't care anymore of users bought StylusRMX second hand, as long as they paid the transfer fee and use a legit(!) version instead of a hack.

That's the best support from users you can get. And the users can still update their tools, not to mention upgrade as soon as RMX v2 hits the shelves. Whenever that might be, but I hope you catch my drift.



Else, I also raise a voice for a 15-20EUR fee for your "work expenses" (maybe even "donation"), but then we all should be able to get the chance to not only upgrade to v1.9~, but also v2.



I understand where you folks are coming from, and why you opted for going that route in the first place. But don't make it more troublesome than it already is.

It's not like available software is limited to a handful of developers anymore. We are swamped with tools. And I rather support independent (read small) companies or developers rather than big-heads like other individuals who give a funk about their customers in all possible ways.

I love AAR, it's still a great and unique reverb among all the available ones, it took the place of Smartelectronix' Ambience, it's shooting towards Silverspike R2 (though it's still far from it). Granted, it's no Lexicon - but then again - EVERYONE can have a Lexicon, especially these days. The sound of AAR is still special, it complements so many reverbs and delays (VoS EpicVerb included!).

Please don't funk this up.

[zvenx]

+1
Rsp