Bye bye VST2

[machinesworking]

Hope "CLAP" will be "the" Standart soon, tired of that Steinberg BS

I'll say it a million and one times, it really should have happened after AU and VST3 were rolled out 15 years ago.

Think of how every change from Apple and Microsoft, to 32 to 64 etc. all of it would have had easily coded transitions to alleviate missing plugins etc. Imagine a world where only the laziest of developers would cause a version upgrade to force you to include say Kontakt 4 in your modern setup for that old song with Kontakt 4 in it.

[S0lo]

It's clear (at least to me) that Steinberg have changed the VST 3 agreement terms several times during the last couple of years. It is also well worth mentioning that VST 2 has a separate agreement. So I think it is essential to consider which version of the agreement a developer have signed when making decisions about future actions regarding VST 2 and VST 3.

At least on my side, the version of VST 3 agreement we signed does not seam to involve VST 2 in it's restrictions/regulations. Even the clause that says some thing like:

"f) In case that Licensee has previously entered into an VST 3 Plug-In SDK Licensing Agreement
with Steinberg such previous agreement are terminated by signature to this agreement."

Is specific about it being for VST 3. As opposed to the clause that appears in the most recent version of VST 3 agreement:

"8. Any and all prior Agreements between Steinberg and the Licensee shall be automatically terminated by signing this Agreement."

I'm no lawyer. So never take my word for it. Just a heads up that it may or may not apply to you.

[pdxindy]

I'll say it a million and one times, it really should have happened after AU and VST3 were rolled out 15 years ago.

What's the point of saying it a million times when it is the past and unchangeable.

CLAP is here now and that is a good thing.

[aMUSEd]

I'll say it a million and one times, it really should have happened after AU and VST3 were rolled out 15 years ago.

What's the point of saying it a million times when it is the past and unchangeable.

CLAP is here now and that is a good thing.

I suspect if it had come out 15 years ago you would have had lots of people being very clever posting those memes about proliferating standards and then everyone would have forgotten about it. What Steinberg are doing is focusing attention on CLAP that just wouldn't have happened back then, they are trying to force people to adopt VST3 but without intending it they are really creating the ideal situation for a new standard like CLAP to become necessary.

[machinesworking]

I'll say it a million and one times, it really should have happened after AU and VST3 were rolled out 15 years ago.

What's the point of saying it a million times when it is the past and unchangeable.

CLAP is here now and that is a good thing.

I suspect if it had come out 15 years ago you would have had lots of people being very clever posting those memes about proliferating standards and then everyone would have forgotten about it. What Steinberg are doing is focusing attention on CLAP that just wouldn't have happened back then, they are trying to force people to adopt VST3 but without intending it they are really creating the ideal situation for a new standard like CLAP to become necessary.

This, we needed this 15 years ago, anyone with any logical sense to them should have seen this coming, that Steinberg would not magically make VST3 easy to code for, and host, and that AU is just more work for developers no matter how you slice it. Capitalism at it's worst, an obvious need for change is only met when the market forces push people into doing the work.

Plus, CLAP is introduced now, unless you're using one of the three DAWs out of 15-30 out there, and only the 20 odd developers that support it, it's not the standard for %99.9 of the people out there, and that, IMO will take likely over a decade to happen.

[Audiority]

I love to be odd

[wikter]

Bitwig is a few features away from being a mustgo for producers.

[seafire]

Musicians on the other hand...

[seafire]

I love to be odd

69

[mothra]

they are trying to force people to adopt VST3 but without intending it they are really creating the ideal situation for a new standard like CLAP to become necessary.

Well to be fair, they asked everyone politely to start transitioning over a decade ago (what was it 2008 or so?).. People have been dragging their feet, or just not bothering with it, so its time to turn it off.

Most everybody already has a VST3 version available, except the ones who still can't figure it out or are just too stubborn to want to put in some work to update.

All the armchair non-devs in here complaning about how Steinberg screwed 'them' over or how hard it is to code for VST, without knowing anything of the sort, are hilarious.

[seafire]

they are trying to force people to adopt VST3 but without intending it they are really creating the ideal situation for a new standard like CLAP to become necessary.

Well to be fair, they asked everyone politely to start transitioning over a decade ago (what was it 2008 or so?).. People have been dragging their feet, or just not bothering with it, so its time to turn it off.

Most everybody already has a VST3 version available, except the ones who still can't figure it out or are just too stubborn to want to put in some work to update.

All the armchair non-devs in here complaning about how Steinberg screwed 'them' over or how hard it is to code for VST, without knowing anything of the sort, are hilarious.

Maybe they are the end users who know what the host devs say about what a pain vst3 is, and how much dev time it takes up to " keep up" with SB demands with no real benefit....its not like they have enough to deal with with apple updates...

[mothra]

how much dev time it takes up to " keep up" with SB demands with no real benefit....its not like they have enough to deal with with apple updates...

Again, armchair dev, what is this "constant demand" they need to keep up with??

That Steinberg killed VST2 and said it was time to move on 15-16 years ago already? You act like this shit happens on a daily basis. No it doesn't, its merely time to close the door for good on something that was already closed ages ago.

[kritikon]

There's a hard-core group of "enraged, from KvR" CLAP fanboys but tbh I suspect the majority are more like myself, that are "don't really care as long as my plugins do what they say on the tin, from The Real World". I haven't got a single plugin that has given me any cause whatsoever to be upset about something as ephemeral as CLAP. None of them don't work because VST2 is finally put to bed. I don't own any VST2 plugins any more. My old DAWs have long since had to be upgraded because of things like OS changes, being far more important/expected than me misguidedy thinking that my 20 yr old plugins should work. And I refuse to be impressed by any dev/company that can't code into VST3, when it's obvs not that difficult, simply because every plugin I now own works perfectly well in VST3.

VST3 gave me proper sidechaining, if nothing else, so it was an improvement. Nothing I heard makes me want or need CLAP. From my limited knowledge, the only benefit of CLAP is some esoteric handling of MIDI, which as far as I'm concerned is old hat for stuck-in-the-mud oldies. And yes, I'm an oldie who learnt how to make my own midi editors handling sysex so I could control Junos via midi...a now defunct and useless talent I won't need and don't miss. I'd rather stick forks in my eyes than go back to complicated MIDI combuggeration. I certainly don't want or need that shit in my plugins.

Seems to be 40-odd pages of angst about stuff 99% don't give a stuff about...

[seafire]

how much dev time it takes up to " keep up" with SB demands with no real benefit....its not like they have enough to deal with with apple updates...

Again, armchair dev, what is this "constant demand" they need to keep up with??

That Steinberg killed VST2 and said it was time to move on 15-16 years ago already? You act like this shit happens on a daily basis. No it doesn't, its merely time to close the door for good on something that was already closed ages ago.

I think you missed the point, doesn't matter. No dog in any of races...

[machinesworking]

I don't know why any of this needs repeating but:

VST3 came out 15 freaking years ago, it doesn't take being a developer to figure out that no one wanted to upgrade to it.

It's finally at market saturation, but anyone paying any amount of attention on a board frequented by developers of merit would see ones like FXPansion who coded the VST/AU wrapper back in the day stating flatly they were never going to make VST3 versions of their plugins. That's not a passing annoyance level of rejection.

What we get in this thread is a few people who use certain DAWs like Cubase and Studio One, both with deep insight into VST3 having developers who worked on it at both companies, chiming in acting like total fools claiming a proprietary format is "stable for them so.." typical internet ignorance. VST3 is the only format that has every crashed Reaper here, and that's the gist of it, in every other DAW it's a crapshoot how well it works even to this day.

There is nothing wrong with being fine with VST3, but to pretend it's been a smooth road to adoption, or that 15 years later any plugin or DAW developer that hasn't been able to code a rock solid VST3 implementation is "lazy" or some other nonsense is absolutely 100% ignoring the obvious. Formats developed by a certain DAW company are going to 100% be more stable in that DAW, it's always the issue, Steinberg have no reason to actively help other DAW developers host VST3, there's not any incentive to do so.