What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[Bunny_boy]

I know autechre and I don't see such expressivity (but I am not a fan so I may absolutely be wrong).

Edit: that came across as much more surly than I meant it to! Anyways, I'm assuming that we are talking about expression as a form of modulation as opposed to expressing yourself via music.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/autechre

[Bunny_boy]

The first person to edit the amen was Mirwais? Have you got a reference for that?

No no no, sorry, I haven't been clear. He was the first (again, AFAIK) to use very expressive articulation in electronic music with a very distinctive sound that was rate at this time.

But what about all the stuff on Warp records in the 90s? Autechre, Black Dog, Apex Twin. Or the stuff on Planet Mu?

Edit: and of course all the ircam stuff, Pierre Schaffer, etc. Delia Derbyshire, Daphne Oram

Dave Vorhaus's Kaleidophon was pretty fecking 'expressive articulation' embodied. 1970s.

And their White Noise record. Love that

[Jac459]

I know autechre and I don't see such expressivity (but I am not a fan so I may absolutely be wrong).

Edit: that came across as much more surly than I meant it to! Anyways, I'm assuming that we are talking about expression as a form of modulation as opposed to expressing yourself via music.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/autechre

Yes yes, we are talking about the same thing. All the timbre, velocity, or effect change coming to transform a main melody over time, such like a violinist can do in a stronger manner than a pianist.

[Jac459]

I know autechre and I don't see such expressivity (but I am not a fan so I may absolutely be wrong).

Edit: that came across as much more surly than I meant it to! Anyways, I'm assuming that we are talking about expression as a form of modulation as opposed to expressing yourself via music.

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/autechre

Thanks for the reference and I am sure you are right about autechre. It is just that.... I am really not a fan of their sound... Just not suites my personal tastes.

[Jac459]

Regarding instruments, I forgot it. I think Mutable Instruments was very novel.

I think the direction the music is going to nowadays is expressivity. It was lost for a few decades with electronic music but it is coming back strong with things like MPE and CLAP (where you can edit every voice of a chord the way you want). I feel some people will invent very creative way to use it.
Also a series of artist where given to you a few posts back, did you try listening to them. I believe they are quite innovative, or VERY innovative. Maybe you are listening too mainstream music?

It has been done in the 90s though already. Because it only takes editing and automation. It just takes a lot of patience and skill. I think contemporary millenial producers lack in the first one. They are not willing to sit hours and hours editing 16 bars of drums, but they take Stylus RMX and press a few buttons.

But yes, I've heard a few tracks that even made the very worn-out amen break sound new. Just because the creator decided to edit it so that it sounds like it's newly recorded.

Sorry I forgot one comment in your post.
Even if I am not a fan at all of Dubstep, I do recognise that it is a complex genre to do and often generating a lot of work.

[soundmodel]

Regarding instruments, I forgot it. I think Mutable Instruments was very novel.

I think the direction the music is going to nowadays is expressivity. It was lost for a few decades with electronic music but it is coming back strong with things like MPE and CLAP (where you can edit every voice of a chord the way you want). I feel some people will invent very creative way to use it.
Also a series of artist where given to you a few posts back, did you try listening to them. I believe they are quite innovative, or VERY innovative. Maybe you are listening too mainstream music?

It has been done in the 90s though already. Because it only takes editing and automation. It just takes a lot of patience and skill. I think contemporary millenial producers lack in the first one. They are not willing to sit hours and hours editing 16 bars of drums, but they take Stylus RMX and press a few buttons.

But yes, I've heard a few tracks that even made the very worn-out amen break sound new. Just because the creator decided to edit it so that it sounds like it's newly recorded.

Sorry I forgot one comment in your post.
Even if I am not a fan at all of Dubstep, I do recognise that it is a complex genre to do and often generating a lot of work.

All genres have room for novelty. However, a lot of dubstep is not novel. Some is.

In dubstep I would've answered to the question by saying that there have been improvements in synth growls, some of which are novel. Compositionally I haven't heard a dubstep track that I would consider novel in the genre though. Most or all dubstep drums that I've heard have also been non-novel.

Are there dubstep tracks that innovate in some other aspects than synth growls?

[Uncle E]

Ooh you'll sound like Jesus Jones!!

See, this is it right here. The world needs this sound right now. Wake up from history, people!

[Bunny_boy]

Speaking of Delia Derbyshire, any excuse

https://youtu.be/5THCfeNlRZo?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/vwQIgGQLOQ8?feature=shared
(It's not '63, but it was originally on the BBC website iirc, so is not a
fake!)

Https://youtu.be/iP3AAAPBmj0?feature=shared

[vurt]

If you study electronic music history,

i did, for university

you could notice a pattern, where a lot of techniques are first invented using "manual means". E.g. a bass resampler is just samplers. Then some developer figures to package to process into an algorithm so that one doesn't have to do it with samplers. This:

• broadens knowledge about the technique to new producers
• allows building more complex instruments by basing on the new one, rather than the old ones.

Another example is glitch plug-ins. They were originally made using manual edits and the "process audio" function. Yet, with the glitch plug-in you can now do the work of e.g. 50 sample slicers and process audio functions.

we have a very different idea of what innovation and novelty means.

[Jac459]

Are there dubstep tracks that innovate in some other aspects than synth growls?

Definitely! It is not only growls, the expressivity of the lead is in general very rich. Plus the way the drum and the bass play together is different.
Man, even in trap with their pitched hit hat. It is novelty. You may not like it or enjoy it (I don't) but you have to recognise the novelty of it.

[Bunny_boy]

Are there dubstep tracks that innovate in some other aspects than synth growls?

Yeah the first lot of Dubstep tunes by Benga, etc that were played at FWD

[ahuman]

I make music in order to invent something new, not reiterate on something that people have already heard.

Then why the f**k are you asking other people how to be original?

[zerocrossing]

We need some hot shot artist like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé to use one in concert so the world takes notice.

Remember when Bjork started using a Reactable table on stage? Now we all carry miniature versions of that exact device in our pockets (literally, it's a $4.99 app).

I didn’t know that about Bjork, but I do remember being impressed with the Reaktable.

[zerocrossing]

I think the direction the music is going to nowadays is expressivity. It was lost for a few decades with electronic music but it is coming back strong with things like MPE and CLAP (where you can edit every voice of a chord the way you want). I feel some people will invent very creative way to use it.

Is it, though? I like to believe it is, but I’m wondering if we’re seeing a small but novel technology get an oversized amount of attention. Believe me, I hope it’s the beginning of a trend. I’ve got a Rise 49 that I love, and I’ll probably pick up an Osmose or Linnstrument too at some point. I just bought a Kontrol S61 for its polyphonic aftertouch. But in the grand scheme of things, I still think it’s going to be a tiny market. We need some hot shot artist like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé to use one in concert so the world takes notice.

Well, if you take artists like Amon Tobin or even Skrillex (with simple melodies), I see a huge work on the sound and how sound evolve over time (or shall I say "after touch" when played).
So I am kind of optimistic.

After maybe not on super mainstream artists but it was never really where the most innovation were. (I think sweet spot are Portishead: reasonably successful yet at the cutting edge of innovation (imho)).

Yeah, I put Radiohead in that boat too.

[zerocrossing]

Part of my pessimism may come from spending too much time on Gearspace, where there’s a contingent who think that the Jupiter 8 is the pinnacle of technology, and we should go back and pretend everything that happened afterwards never occurred.