What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[Uncle E]

Portishead was wonderful. Probably more influential than they were successful. Like Velvet Underground except with talent.

[Jac459]

Portishead was wonderful. Probably more influential than they were successful. Like Velvet Underground except with talent.

Just when there 2 first albums were so good and I thought they gave everything.
They dropped "Third", a master piece....

What I would do to get a bit of their talent....

I read "Air" (the band) was created in inspiration of them.... Not bad....

[Bunny_boy]

Isn't the obvious addition to bring acoustic sounds into electronic music.
- bring some acoustic or rock guitar into the soup
- acoustic drums or a grand piano etc

Ooh you'll sound like Jesus Jones!!

[soundmodel]

In instruments I think Eplex7 is the recent incarnation of novelty.

the software developer? the one who makes synths aimed at specific currently popular genres?
isnt that the opposite of novelty?

Yes and no.

If you study electronic music history, you could notice a pattern, where a lot of techniques are first invented using "manual means". E.g. a bass resampler is just samplers. Then some developer figures to package to process into an algorithm so that one doesn't have to do it with samplers. This:

• broadens knowledge about the technique to new producers
• allows building more complex instruments by basing on the new one, rather than the old ones.

Another example is glitch plug-ins. They were originally made using manual edits and the "process audio" function. Yet, with the glitch plug-in you can now do the work of e.g. 50 sample slicers and process audio functions.

[soundmodel]

Regarding instruments, I forgot it. I think Mutable Instruments was very novel.

I think the direction the music is going to nowadays is expressivity. It was lost for a few decades with electronic music but it is coming back strong with things like MPE and CLAP (where you can edit every voice of a chord the way you want). I feel some people will invent very creative way to use it.
Also a series of artist where given to you a few posts back, did you try listening to them. I believe they are quite innovative, or VERY innovative. Maybe you are listening too mainstream music?

It has been done in the 90s though already. Because it only takes editing and automation. It just takes a lot of patience and skill. I think contemporary millenial producers lack in the first one. They are not willing to sit hours and hours editing 16 bars of drums, but they take Stylus RMX and press a few buttons.

But yes, I've heard a few tracks that even made the very worn-out amen break sound new. Just because the creator decided to edit it so that it sounds like it's newly recorded.

[Bunny_boy]

Like Velvet Underground except with talent.

Miao!!!

Portishead were pretty massive in the UK. Their reluctance to tour and release music probably hampered their profile though.

[Jac459]

Regarding instruments, I forgot it. I think Mutable Instruments was very novel.

I think the direction the music is going to nowadays is expressivity. It was lost for a few decades with electronic music but it is coming back strong with things like MPE and CLAP (where you can edit every voice of a chord the way you want). I feel some people will invent very creative way to use it.
Also a series of artist where given to you a few posts back, did you try listening to them. I believe they are quite innovative, or VERY innovative. Maybe you are listening too mainstream music?

It has been done in the 90s though already. Because it only takes editing and automation. It just takes a lot of patience and skill. I think contemporary millenial producers lack in the first one. They are not willing to sit hours and hours editing 16 bars of drums, but they take Stylus RMX and press a few buttons.

But yes, I've heard a few tracks that even made the very worn-out amen break sound new. Just because the creator decided to edit it so that it sounds like it's newly recorded.

The very first to really do that (afaik) was Mirwais. He even worked for Madonna when she was at the top of her career.

Not bad.

[whyterabbyt]

In instruments I think Eplex7 is the recent incarnation of novelty.

the software developer? the one who makes synths aimed at specific currently popular genres?
isnt that the opposite of novelty?

Yes and no.

If you study electronic music history you could notice a pattern, where a lot of techniques are first invented using "manual means". E.g. a bass resampler is just samplers.

wow. if you study electronic music history properly, you'd know 'sampling' started off on vinyl, wire and tape, 30-40 years before there were 'samplers'.

[whyterabbyt]

Another example is glitch plug-ins. They were originally made using manual edits and the "process audio" function. Yet, with the glitch plug-in you can now do the work of e.g. 50 sample slicers and process audio functions.

wow again. 'process audio function' nothing, its all stuff that was being originally done with tape, in the 50s and 60s.

[Bunny_boy]

Regarding instruments, I forgot it. I think Mutable Instruments was very novel.

I think the direction the music is going to nowadays is expressivity. It was lost for a few decades with electronic music but it is coming back strong with things like MPE and CLAP (where you can edit every voice of a chord the way you want). I feel some people will invent very creative way to use it.
Also a series of artist where given to you a few posts back, did you try listening to them. I believe they are quite innovative, or VERY innovative. Maybe you are listening too mainstream music?

It has been done in the 90s though already. Because it only takes editing and automation. It just takes a lot of patience and skill. I think contemporary millenial producers lack in the first one. They are not willing to sit hours and hours editing 16 bars of drums, but they take Stylus RMX and press a few buttons.

But yes, I've heard a few tracks that even made the very worn-out amen break sound new. Just because the creator decided to edit it so that it sounds like it's newly recorded.

The very first to really do that (afaik) was Mirwais. He even worked for Madonna when she was at the top of her career.

Not bad.

The first person to edit the amen was Mirwais? Have you got a reference for that?

[Jac459]

The first person to edit the amen was Mirwais? Have you got a reference for that?

No no no, sorry, I haven't been clear. He was the first (again, AFAIK) to use very expressive articulation in electronic music with a very distinctive sound that was rate at this time.

[lobanov]

I make music in order to invent something new, not reiterate on something that people have already heard.

How many people said or did it before you? Is it a novelty? No, it is a tradition. Such a tradition exists.
There is something deeply incosistient and contradictory in your position. Your intent of creating the novel isn't original at all.

Okay so it's been something like 3 years that I have not found a single track that would've made me go "wow". When I was younger, it happened more often. Nowadays I think I've heard all the tricks.

It's your bias. A "spider" in your head (I agree with mjudge55). An illusion, an impression which is wrong. It is similar to a cloud which envelops you (or you envelop by this cloud yourself). Relearn to listen to the music and find in it something that you don't now. You cannot know all the thing that have been done. It's not possible. Yes, mostly music isn't original. Or is original but in the smallest details. It's hard to find in it what you're searching for. But you'll find nothing if you aren't searching for it.

Some songs, compositions, albums were novel and revolutionary at the moment of their creation. Then they became ordinary. More or less. The wider their acknowledgment was, the stronger their ordinarity became. It's inevitable. All new things one day became old, well known things.

It seems to me that you lack the notion of history. Try to cultivate the historical point of view on any innovations. Any novelty is relative.

[Bunny_boy]

The first person to edit the amen was Mirwais? Have you got a reference for that?

No no no, sorry, I haven't been clear. He was the first (again, AFAIK) to use very expressive articulation in electronic music with a very distinctive sound that was rate at this time.

But what about all the stuff on Warp records in the 90s? Autechre, Black Dog, Apex Twin. Or the stuff on Planet Mu?

Edit: and of course all the ircam stuff, Pierre Schaffer, etc. Delia Derbyshire, Daphne Oram

[whyterabbyt]

The first person to edit the amen was Mirwais? Have you got a reference for that?

No no no, sorry, I haven't been clear. He was the first (again, AFAIK) to use very expressive articulation in electronic music with a very distinctive sound that was rate at this time.

But what about all the stuff on Warp records in the 90s? Autechre, Black Dog, Apex Twin. Or the stuff on Planet Mu?

Edit: and of course all the ircam stuff, Pierre Schaffer, etc. Delia Derbyshire, Daphne Oram

Dave Vorhaus's Kaleidophon was pretty fecking 'expressive articulation' embodied. 1970s.

[Jac459]

The first person to edit the amen was Mirwais? Have you got a reference for that?

No no no, sorry, I haven't been clear. He was the first (again, AFAIK) to use very expressive articulation in electronic music with a very distinctive sound that was rate at this time.

But what about all the stuff on Warp records in the 90s? Autechre, Black Dog, Apex Twin. Or the stuff on Planet Mu?

Edit: and of course all the ircam stuff, Pierre Schaffer, etc. Delia Derbyshire, Daphne Oram

Well I don't know Black Dog so it is outside my area of analysis .

I know autechre and I don't see such expressivity (but I am not a fan so I may absolutely be wrong).
Aphex Twin is different, he clearly is a synth genius and the sounds are very diverse and rich.... It is a more complex music than Mirwais imho.

But with Mirwais, it was very very standard electronic music PLUS this touch of expressivity. So to me it was very very recognisable. Beyond Aphex where everything was more subtitle and mixed....


Anyway, that's the way I felt it at this time....