Speedbumpy Surface for better play by feel - samples ready

[TigerBalm]

Great! thanks for the input Gil

I made a video focusing on the bumps to better show what they feel like:

https://youtu.be/IKm5nYmN6P8

(Sorry about the audio)

[wldmr]

That's a great showcase, TigerBalm. Great playing, too. Can't wait until mine arrives so I can see how it feels. (BTW I've gotten all your messages you sent via Reverb. But I ordered without an account, so I don't know if and how I can reply to you via the site. Rest assured that I appreciate the dilligence. )

Not to derail the topic, but are you by any chance using the tritone tuning on your LS (6 semitone row offset)? Those finger positions sure looked like it.

[Bretsetran]

Yo! I hope you are doing well!

Are anymore samples going to be made of the 128? I am excited to try this out!

[TigerBalm]

Are anymore samples going to be made of the 128? I am excited to try this out!

Thanks for your interest Bretsetran.

6 of 8 people have received their overlays so far. Many thanks to all of you that ordered. The feedback is pretty positive:
-"Seems promising-definitely can feel where I am in Y better"
-"I really like how intuitive it feels... [Normally on] Linnstrument I have to look at it while I play. I feel like this overlay allows my hands to do part of the 'looking.'"
-"the ridges idea is very good. It makes it a little easier to know where I am without looking"

One user pointed out how the bumps only give you feeling of relative position not absolute position, which is true. Also the light transmission and friction aren't as good as the original sheet, but we can fix that long term.

The common concerns are slippage and reduced responsiveness. Those both are results of using an overlay instead of a real replacement sheet. So if you don't mind waiting a few weeks I'm going to order new 3d printed molds for a replacement sheet design instead of an overlay.

I didn't do a replacement sheet on the first round (sorry) because I was worried about damaging people's sensors. However, I talked to Roger yesterday and he does not expect this to cause sensor damage so I am going to try it now.

My goal is to do one or two more rounds of 3D printed molds to get good confirmation that the concept works. If so, I'll consider putting in the money for steel molds with the same vendor, rubber, and coating that Roger uses.

(Wldmr I'm glad you go my Reverb messages. Hmm I'm just using perfect fourth tuning since I'm a bass player. Maybe it's the camera angle?)

[Roger_Linn]

Thanks for doing this, TigerBalm. It's a wonderful contribution to the LinnStrument community and a great way for me to learn from this experiment. Also, it was very nice talking with you in yesterday's video call.

[TigerBalm]

My pleasure! Thank you for taking the time to chat

[wldmr]

OK, so I finally collected my package today and had a play immediately. And wow, fell in love with it right away!

What I like:

• The added squishiness feels very satisfying. It actually adds a level of enjoyment when playing more, uh, "vigorously".
• I also like the added travel when applying pressure. Gives a smidge of tactile feedback to pressure expressions, where without it I had to rely on sound (which totally works, but the more feedback the better).
• I haven't actually noticed any loss of sensitivity. It might be there on a technical level, but didn't affect me with the sounds I use. I tend to use QHOLD FAST for pitch expressions, which allows fairly subtle vibrato. No issues whatsoever.
• I actually kind of like the overlay concept. I know you did that for easier prototyping and the intent is to make replacement sheets. But I'm now kind of enamored with the idea of switching surfaces for different situations.
• Kind of beside the point, but I really like the darker surface. Maybe not ideal that the only colors that really come through are blue and green, but two colors is plenty for me. Opens up the possibilities of more fashionable Linnstrument styles. Faux-woodgrain, anyone?

Other observations

• I was surprised that the speedbumps don't actually add that much more information in terms of positioning. But that sort of aligns with the “Dude it's fine, you'll get used to it.” responses I got when I first asked for more tactility. By now I've gotten used to feeling out the edges of the pads, which gives you fairly good orientation. With all that said: Every little bit helps, and I really like the added bumps.
• In the same vein: Now that you've added vertical information, how do you feel about adding curves to the pads in the horizontal direction? This might give an even better indication of where the middle of a pad is. Or, if that makes slides too annoying, perhaps very subtle divots in the middle of each pad?
• I also like the idea of variations in geometry of the bumps to indicate the absolute position on the surface. While one's arm position and peripheral vision do a good enough job already, again every bit helps.

Alright, that's my brain dump. I'm really excited for how this is going and will continue to go. Thank you and Roger for cooperating so fruitfully on this. You can be sure I'll want a sample of the next iteration.

[mrspiral]

If TB makes a clear one for the 128, I am SO in.

[TigerBalm]

OK, so I finally collected my package today and had a play immediately. And wow, fell in love with it right away!

Thanks for the super detailed feedback wldmr! I really appreciate it. Interesting that you liked the bumps for more reasons than play by feel.

I hear what you’re saying about overlays being fun. Given the cost of the mold I have to pick one or the other and I’d probably go for a ful replacement sheet design.

I’ll give an update in a few weeks when the next round of samples are ready. I want to add vertical ridges inspired by frets to help you feel the X-center of the notes. But these frets will be have openings on the top of the speedbump so you can slide unimpeded. I want to strike a balance between having something you can feel that also doesn’t get in the way.

[Ahornberg]

TigerBalm, what about making dents instead of bumps?

20220629_102807.jpg

[TigerBalm]

TigerBalm, what about making dents instead of bumps?

I love your sketch! I think concave rows would do a good job of guiding the finger. However, they would make it very hard to play double stops. I'm not sure if that's the official term, but that's what I'm calling it where one finger hits two notes, above and below each other. I noticed from watching videos of Connor Golden that he does this a lot. I think the speedbump rows actually make it easier to play double stops because you get a tactile confirmation that your finger is touching two crests.

[Ahornberg]

... double stops. I'm not sure if that's the official term ...

Ah, barre chords like on a guitar. I haven't tried that before, but on the original surface it works fine for 2 notes. 3 notes do not work well. But this playing technique gives me a new dimension.

[TigerBalm]

Finally ordered the new set of molds for v0.1! I'm sticking with 1.25mm bumps and playing with the size and shape of "frets" to help you feel the x-center of the pad. These will be full replacement sheets. I should have samples ready to share in late August.

edit: In the future I want to be more selective about when I post updates on this forum to avoid being spammy. I'd rather just share when things are ready. If you're curious about day to day updates please check out my instagram which is @soundworkshopco

[TigerBalm]

OK! I finally have a new version ready. In this version, I nixed the proud "fret" features AND the gaps between the notes. Instead, I put grooves over the centers of the note. Inspired by other threads in this forum.

To recap: speedbumps help you feel Y center, and grooves help you feel X center. Please see this video for a demo:

https://youtu.be/2w4ukoNF1Ls

I'm experimenting with different groove size and depth. Would love to get your input. I'm making 10 sheets (5 small, 5 large) to share. I need to charge a nominal fee though. If you would like to support the cause and/or provide your input please check out my Reverb store. Thank you.

https://reverb.com/shop/christophers-gear-depot-389

[bobbyturban]

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OK! I finally have a new version ready. In this version, I nixed the proud "fret" features AND the gaps between the notes. Instead, I put grooves over the centers of the note. Inspired by other threads in this forum.

To recap: speedbumps help you feel Y center, and grooves help you feel X center. Please see this video for a demo:

https://youtu.be/2w4ukoNF1Ls

I'm experimenting with different groove size and depth. Would love to get your input. I'm making 10 sheets (5 small, 5 large) to share. I need to charge a nominal fee though. If you would like to support the cause and/or provide your input please check out my Reverb store. Thank you.

https://reverb.com/shop/christophers-gear-depot-389 (https://reverb.com/shop/christophers-gear-depot-389)

That looks pretty nice!

Did you got some feedback yet? Do the testers enjoy it?