Beta Testers Wanted

[SparkySpark]

Well, online people tend to complain more than praise, and Kvr isn’t exactly representative of the real world. What you’re looking at are simply the loudest voices. For me, Pace is one of the least annoying forms of CP. the absolute worst one is challenge/response. That’s the reason I steadfastly refuse to use IK’s software anymore. Is Pace the best? Absolutely not, but it’s not the weakest link in terms of software frustration. Abandonware is a bigger issue.

Agreeing with most of what you said (and still, KVR is one of the nicer places online!). PACE hasn't been evil to my system either. It's just that at AirMusic's price interval, PACE makes little sense.

Besides, my argument is they should abandon PACE to get more sales, not that PACE is necessarily bad.

FWIW, as they wrote in another thread, they now look into other options, so we'll see what they decide. Like you, I wish them a long life, as I really like their products.

[mabian]

Let's wish them a long life, because at the PACE at which they are preparing the announced updates, they will need to last quite long to release them... sorry... could not resist

- Mario

[Teksonik]

For me, Pace is one of the least annoying forms of CP......Is Pace the best? Absolutely not, but it’s not the weakest link in terms of software frustration.

You realize that the whole reason for the request for beta testers was to fix issues Air plugins were causing with Pace like.....

viewtopic.php?f=265&t=550083

viewtopic.php?f=265&t=546199

The problem is the Pace iLok software gets its hooks so deep into your system that it can cause major stability issues and put systems at risk.

All that just to protect plugins that are routinely sold for $1, $5, or $10 these days.

I own a lot of Air plugins but I don't reach for them any longer when working on a project. Eventually I want to disinfect my studio computer of the ilok virus.

I've got hundreds of other plugins that don't require intrusive copy protection schemes so I'll just use them. Shame as I like some of the Air plugins like Hybrid 3 and Xpand!2.

I'll take Challenge Response over iLok E-Licenser any day. People never take into consideration what happens if Pace ever goes under.

But anyway I volunteered to beta test for Air on a separate system but never heard back from Simon so it still appears Air plugins have been abandoned...

[yellowmix]

I'll take Challenge Response over iLok E-Licenser any day. People never take into consideration what happens if Pace ever goes under.

If PACE goes under, the developers can publish new builds without it. Pace has been around since 1985, and has much larger clients than the entire audio plugin industry combined.

If a developer's Challenge Response goes under, you're SOL. Ask me how I know.

The best DRM is none, but if there has to be one, local data (serial number, license file) is the safest long-term one. iLok is fundamentally challenge response, the only difference is if you trust Pace Anti-Piracy to be better at their core competency, or these solo audio plugin developers at something that takes business resources away from theirs. If you're rejecting iLok, you should be rejecting challenge-response as well.

[Teksonik]

If PACE goes under, the developers can publish new builds without it. Pace has been around since 1985, and has much larger clients than the entire audio plugin industry combined.
If a developer's Challenge Response goes under, you're SOL. Ask me how I know.

And if a developer that uses C/R goes under they "can publish new builds without it".
Have you not seen the recent issues with Pace iLok ?

The best DRM is none, but if there has to be one, local data (serial number, license file) is the safest long-term one.

Of course, you're simply stating the painfully obvious.

iLok is fundamentally challenge response, the only difference is if you trust Pace Anti-Piracy to be better at their core competency,

That's the problem, I don't trust the Pace software that needs to get its hooks so far into your system that it can be bricked. I trust developers who respect the stability of my system far more than I trust some mindless corporation or some developer who is more concerned about himself than his customers.

If you're rejecting iLok, you should be rejecting challenge-response as well.

Nope two different things. One requires you to install software that could potentially damage your system beyond repair and the other only requires you to simply have faith in developers who don't put their customer's systems at risk.

Anyway I have Pace iLok installed on two systems mostly for the Air plugins but since it's apparent they will no longer be developed and are essentially abandonware I am phasing them out of my working lineup.

I rarely if ever reach for a plugin that requires iLok these days.

[zzz00m]

In addition to my AIR plugins, other brands tied to iLok on my machine are: SONiVOX, Akai, Eventide, Softube, Metric Halo, & UVI.

The last time that I upgraded my PC motherboard (unplanned due to a hardware fail) without first de-activating the plugins from i-Lok, I had to email each of these individual publishers to get them reset.

So Pace doesn't even add value as far as managing license resets. In all fairness though, each of those software companies managed to assist me within 24 hours. Still was a pain, though!

[zzz00m]

dupe...

[ghettosynth]

Ya'all can complain about iLok all that you want to. What iLok does for me is it puts all of the licenses on a dongle. I don't ever worry about whether or not my licences are going to be lost when a drive dies because, wait for it, they're not stored on a drive. It is beyond weird to me that there are so many loud complaints about the cost of a dongle that keeps your licenses reasonably secure in the event of computer failure. Is it foolproof? No. Is it more reliable than hard drives, I'd say yes.

I look for iLok copy protection when making my purchasing decisions. I prefer just a serial, but after that it's iLok. This is especially true for companies that aren't large enough to inspire confidence that they're going to be around forever. I wish that companies that don't use iLok now would provide it as an option, talking about you NI.

I think the iLok haters are just a lot louder than those of us who think having a USB port and $40 isn't a big cost to keeping our licenses stored in a reasonably secure place.

[zzz00m]

(a) Dongles can be lost, stolen, or die.

I'm not an iLok hater! Never had a real problem with it messing with my system. Just shared a true experience that cost me some time re-activating my plugins.

I actually wish Waves would go iLok, as their current copy protection system is the worst... Unless you put your licenses on a USB flash stick and (b) use that just like a generic dongle.

I believe that iZotope now offers the iLok as an option.

[ghettosynth]

(a) Dongles can be lost, stolen, or die.

Again, it's not foolproof, nothing is foolproof.

Computers can be lost, stolen or die.

I have had iLok for a decade, I've not had one dongle get lost, stolen, or die. I have had multiple computers die in that same time frame. Are dongles easier to lose than computers, sure, are dongles less likely to die than a computer, yes. Theft is a problem that you will want to mitigate in different ways depending on your use case.

Additionally, dongles have other benefits. It's easy enough to move my dongle to another computer so that I can use my licenses elsewhere. One good way of mitigating stress to the dongle is put all of your dongles into a cheap USB hub and move that instead. I have licenses for several vendors that allow portable drives to be license storage as well as my elicnse and ilok keys in one of these.

I prefer dongles. P.R.E.F.E.R! I am more likely to both buy your plugin, and spend more for it, if it's protected with iLok. You are also likely to get more future sales from me because of iLok. Why? Because my iLok protected plugins are the plugins most likely to be reinstalled. The least likely are C/R from small vendors. In short, once you don't get reinstalled, I forget about you.

[zzz00m]

In short, once you don't get reinstalled, I forget about you.

Yep, unfortunately that rings true!

[Russell Grand]

Well, before you take on a bunch of public beta testers: What you need to do is - as EVERYONE here knows - to ditch PACE. Just look at the numerous threads, in your own forum and all over the KVR.

It just makes no sense to use iLok on software one pays five or ten bucks for, and you must lose a lot of sales keeping up with PACE as your protection system. It's really a shame, since your instruments are often very good and extremely versatile.

Well, online people tend to complain more than praise, and Kvr isn’t exactly representative of the real world. What you’re looking at are simply the loudest voices. For me, Pace is one of the least annoying forms of CP. the absolute worst one is challenge/response. That’s the reason I steadfastly refuse to use IK’s software anymore. Is Pace the best? Absolutely not, but it’s not the weakest link in terms of software frustration. Abandonware is a bigger issue.

I think there are many people that would prefer no C/R on plugins at all, myself included. However, I agree that the PACE iLok protection isn't too bad really.

[SparkySpark]

I think the whole point of this thread was that for a company like AIR, relying heavily on products selling for 5-10 bucks, we'd like to have a simple serial number. So no fancy copy protection at all.

A few years back, I launched the idea that one influential company - likely Steinberg - should establish a standard for c/p and license tracking, free for devs to use. So, basically iLok but without the bad connotations and hopefully without BSODs. That would make everything so much easier!

When changing computers (or one gets lost), all that would be needed would be a new login, as all these products would be put in a list on a server.

In the end, that would still mean some sort of c/p digging into the OS (unless for users preferring to always have license checking in the cloud upon DAW startup instead), but at least just one major c/p utility. So I'd like to see a consortium for this, where Steinberg also gets Waves onboard, as well as iZotope, NI and maybe Propellerheads. Then, all devs could opt in for free, like Melda or whoever.

When purchasing some software, one could then choose to use this new standard instead of even inserting serials, to save a few mouse clicks, and make transitioning to a new computer easier. Plus imagine how much easier it would be for devs, getting rid of all lost-serials support! In the end this system would be a money-saver, I'm pretty sure.

I used to be our company's spokesman for the MMA back in the day. Perhaps they could work on this (they don't do that much anyway).

[Teksonik]

Ya'all can complain about iLok all that you want to. What iLok does for me is it puts all of the licenses on a dongle.
I think the iLok haters are just a lot louder than those of us who think having a USB port and $40 isn't a big cost to keeping our licenses stored in a reasonably secure place.

That's a completely irrelevant diatribe.

The subject here and the reason for the beta testing is to fix issues caused by the Pace iLok Software License Manager and has nothing to do with dongles.

This update is a large part to resolve the issues that people have seen with iLok

Again it's about these issues caused by some Air installers borking the iLok soft manager which can then cause serious system issues:

viewtopic.php?f=265&t=546199

viewtopic.php?f=265&t=550083

[ghettosynth]

Ya'all can complain about iLok all that you want to. What iLok does for me is it puts all of the licenses on a dongle.
I think the iLok haters are just a lot louder than those of us who think having a USB port and $40 isn't a big cost to keeping our licenses stored in a reasonably secure place.

That's a completely irrelevant diatribe.

I was responding this to this "completely irrelevant diatrabe"

Well, before you take on a bunch of public beta testers: What you need to do is - as EVERYONE here knows - to ditch PACE. Just look at the numerous threads, in your own forum and all over the KVR.

No, "EVERYONE here" does not know that. So, if you want the thread to stay on topic, then stay on topic. I don't care how much your plugin costs, if it's on Pace, I view it as an advantage over C/R. So, if Air has problems with Pace then I'm interested in seeing those problems fixed. Not that I've ever had any problems with Air plugins and Pace, mind you.

So, if you don't like Pace and don't want to help, get out of the thread. Air wants people to help them fix issues with Pace, I don't see that they're interested in people complaining about Pace.