What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[Bunny_boy]

I can be novel as f**k with my old Casiotone keyboard 'cause I've never heard anyone else play one.

Mr Sting?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-pol ... rial-world

That explains why that song is shocking

[vurt]

But it's possible for a violin player to sound novel via a Stradivari.

Do you have a link to the tests that state this?

They'll still sound like they're playing a violin - it won't sound like they're sea slug reciting Chaucer

No, it is just statistics.

If there are n < (much less) m of that instrument type, then the probability of appearing new in n instruments is more probable.

As m grows then the more likely it is to find that everything seems to sound the same.

thats backwards actually.
the more people who play violin, the more likely, we are to hear original and novel violin music.
as with minimum available violins, they are more likely to be bought by musicians who play classical violin style.
with the modern availability of cheap violins, we get other types of player picking them up.

[Bunny_boy]

Maybes we'll get a sea slug reciting Chaucer via the use of a violin?

[Uncle E]

There's no genre that relies on an instrument such as a TB-303 without the TB-303.

It was the drugs. That genre happened because of the drugs.

[soundmodel]

But it's possible for a violin player to sound novel via a Stradivari.

Do you have a link to the tests that state this?

They'll still sound like they're playing a violin - it won't sound like they're sea slug reciting Chaucer

No, it is just statistics.

If there are n < (much less) m of that instrument type, then the probability of appearing new in n instruments is more probable.

As m grows then the more likely it is to find that everything seems to sound the same.

thats backwards actually.
the more people who play violin, the more likely, we are to hear original and novel violin music.
as with minimum available violins, they are more likely to be bought by musicians who play classical violin style.
with the modern availability of cheap violins, we get other types of player picking them up.

To me it has seemed though that most who reach a semi-pro level will upgrade to some other than cheapest.

So the most accessible has most competition.

[vurt]

But it's possible for a violin player to sound novel via a Stradivari.

Do you have a link to the tests that state this?

They'll still sound like they're playing a violin - it won't sound like they're sea slug reciting Chaucer

No, it is just statistics.

If there are n < (much less) m of that instrument type, then the probability of appearing new in n instruments is more probable.

As m grows then the more likely it is to find that everything seems to sound the same.

thats backwards actually.
the more people who play violin, the more likely, we are to hear original and novel violin music.
as with minimum available violins, they are more likely to be bought by musicians who play classical violin style.
with the modern availability of cheap violins, we get other types of player picking them up.

To me it has seemed though that most who reach a semi-pro level will upgrade to some other than cheapest.

So the most accessible has most competition.

but most accessible, means more people who cant actually play properly, leading to novel techniques and therefore music.

novel is not equivalent to listenable always, of course.

[Shabdahbriah]

In electronically produced music tools are an unremovable part of what's possible in the first place. No 303, no 303 sounds and sequences. No piano, no Star Wars theme. Or no [a particular piano], no particular sound and performance of Star Wars theme. It can also be less, because better and worse gear are not equivalent.

You cannot have digitally manipulated sounds without electronics. Simple as that. Once there's some instrument, after that it's possible to have those sounds and performances.

The musicians using the sounds and the sample engine I meant.

It could be possible to analyze and see if there's a pattern in some genre before Omnisphere and after Omnisphere, or some other tool.

So you're saying that if those instruments didn't exist, then the composer wouldn't make music? It's only because someone made those instruments that music can happen. If nobody made those instruments then no music can happen. These instruments were made out of the scope of the desire to make music
Therefore music doesn't exist, except vocal music.

Yes, and the main point in the thread is that "novelty" is partly about tools.

I dunno, I feels like the main themes of this thread are logical fallacies and an incomplete knowledge of the history of music

Indeed. Which leads us to the inevitable:

More Cowbell!

[whyterabbyt]

Lets just say that a lot of people would agree in an ABX test that the Stradivari, when played by the same player would sound better than a cheap violin.

lets not, unless you have evidence.

[Shabdahbriah]

I make music in order to invent something new, not reiterate on something that people have already heard.

Sooo, you're essentially aspiring to create a 'new' genre? Or, at least a unique niche where no man has gone before? Cool... maybe just focus on actually DOING THAT, regardless of the outcome with regard to anyone else appreciating it!

Make the music that appeals TO and for YOU. THAT IS what it is 'about'. Using tools/a medium to EXPRESS YOURSELF. Nothing more. But most assuredly... nothing less. [2c]

[soundmodel]

The topic is not about speculating about subjectivity, but finding tangible ideas regarding where current novelties might be.

If we believe Ryoji Ikedas then CNNs applied to music.

[Bunny_boy]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

[Jac459]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

Why would you call that Mu-Dance ?

[whyterabbyt]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance.

as in 'mu-dancehancers?'

[Jac459]

The topic is not about speculating about subjectivity, but finding tangible ideas regarding where current novelties might be.

If we believe Ryoji Ikedas then CNNs applied to music.

If you take example on painting, I do believe that innovators are the one who are absolutely mastering the current techniques. And in the journey to that, find way to innovate...

I do believe that this is the same for music. Innovators were in the vast majority people very talented and mastering their craft and then went a step further... Leading to innovation.

I don't think looking for shortcuts in a forum can give any result whatsoever...

As if you don't believe there is novelty in electronic music now... I would suggest you to find better playlist or listen to less mainstream artists...

[Jac459]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance.

as in 'mu-dancehancers?'

Argh, I suspect the joke is funny but my non-native limited English level prevent me to understand it .