Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[Yorrrrrr]

Great stuff pdxindy!. I'm glad those aren't enough perks for me. Because in Ableton: 1. I live in arrangement view almost permanently; 2. Same. If I ever want to use session view or perform live, I don't mind if it's only 1 tab key away and focus on it, I don't think I've ever mixed both workflows; 3/4. Already happy with freeze and flatten, or only freeze and dragging a piece of audio to an audio track if I desire to keep the MIDI; 5. If I want to use something from another project, I go to the browser/user library and drag stuff to my current project. Not the same, but works fine in my case. And I like to focus on one thing at a time regardless; 6. Don't care about CLAP because none of the plugins use that format anyway. Nowadays I use very few and selected plugins, 98% of the time Ableton Live 12 Suite does it for me. And if not, I fill some gaps with Max for Live, Reason Rack Plugin, DUNE 3.6 and a few other VST3 plugins.

However, I'd be happy if Ableton implemented plugin sandboxing, but as an additional safety measure. Ableton doesn't ever crash on me because of plugins misbehaving. The rare case when it did, Ableton did recover successfully in a non critical, non live, studio scenario. So, such a feature wouldn't be life-changing either, just a nice to have.

But of course, YMMV. All that only applies to me.

[SLiC]

I couldn’t disagree more about Live 12s instruments, they are the best of any DAW I use and are fully functional instruments without having to add extra modulation sources. As I said, Bitwig is a tinkerers toolbox, the modular of DAWs…but to me Live is faster and just gets music produced, the fx like glue, drum bus, meld etc I prefer over VSTs…Lives instruments with Push 3 are a genuine hardware like experience, nothing else comes close for integration.

I also don’t have crashes with plugins in Live (is that even a thing anymore, I don’t get crashes in Studio One either?)

Audio editing better with Bitwig but midi editing now better with Live (and it has midi comping). I find similar sounds in Live drum racks etc fantastic (and the browser generally now better than Bitwig). Personally I prefer the way Live looks and the simple 2 screen approach, but that’s just personal preference.

[Yorrrrrr]

Yes, to me Ableton looks neat, organized and simple. While Bitwig looks dark, over saturated and bloated. Like a Halloween themed Fisher Price. You can’t customize it much either. But looks are indeed subjective and there will be people who like that.

[ckoe]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

• better device chain interface
• better midi editor
• better arrangment editor
• I love the color theme
• plugin sandboxing
• performance 200% of ableton on my windows with WASAPI
• CLAP plugin support
• free OS Choice (win, mac, linux)
• like the userinterface much more
• better smart browser

I love to do modular music with Bitwig and breaking the rules of classic arrangement and sample stuff. No other DAW comes in that area of making electronic music in my opinion. For me Bitwig is the next gen ableton.

The only plus thing on ableton; it has some better sounding stock plugins

but hey, if you like ableton more then stay with it. For me, I'll never ever install ableton again, not if it become free to download.

[jens]

I don't think anyone mentioned touchscreens already - Bitwig has a dedicated touch-optimized mode, while Live doesn't even support multitouch yet. So that is one potentially huge difference.

[SLiC]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

• better device chain interface
• better midi editor
• better arrangment editor
• I love the color theme
• plugin sandboxing
• performance 200% of ableton on my windows with WASAPI
• CLAP plugin support
• free OS Choice (win, mac, linux)
• like the userinterface much more
• better smart browser

I love to do modular music with Bitwig and breaking the rules of classic arrangement and sample stuff. No other DAW comes in that area of making electronic music in my opinion. For me Bitwig is the next gen ableton.

The only plus thing on ableton; it has some better sounding stock plugins

but hey, if you like ableton more then stay with it. For me, I'll never ever install ableton again, not if it become free to download.

Your saying Bitwig is better than than Live 12 but also you havent tried Live 12?

I have both- Bitwig since V1- Live currently has a better browser (similar sound search is a game changer- pre-sets and samples with hot swap) and far better midi editing in 12, midi comping, midi capture, automated midi pattern generation (like built in scaler, cord generator, riffer, drum pattern generator etc). It also has global and track scales, fold to scales and scales that even work on the filters etc. Audio to midi is also very useful for butting things back to midi to work with.

Also, I get slightly better performance with Live 12 than Bitwig on Win 11, was the other way around with Live 11- 12 seems more efficient. I don't have crashes in Live or Bitwig (and I don't use the sandboxing in Bitwig as I am stable without it)

[ckoe]

Besides the modular features, what does Bitwig Studio have that Ableton Live 12 Suite doesn't have that improves production workflow?

• better device chain interface
• better midi editor
• better arrangment editor
• I love the color theme
• plugin sandboxing
• performance 200% of ableton on my windows with WASAPI
• CLAP plugin support
• free OS Choice (win, mac, linux)
• like the userinterface much more
• better smart browser

I love to do modular music with Bitwig and breaking the rules of classic arrangement and sample stuff. No other DAW comes in that area of making electronic music in my opinion. For me Bitwig is the next gen ableton.

The only plus thing on ableton; it has some better sounding stock plugins

but hey, if you like ableton more then stay with it. For me, I'll never ever install ableton again, not if it become free to download.

Your saying Bitwig is better than than Live 12 but also you havent tried Live 12?

No, I'm saying it's for my purpose much better. Yes, I was beta tester on Ableton 12 and then I decided to switch back to Bitwig. No new 12 Features give me so much freedom and joy as Bitwig does.

[pdxindy]

Your saying Bitwig is better than than Live 12 but also you havent tried Live 12?

I have both- Bitwig since V1- Live currently has a better browser (similar sound search is a game changer- pre-sets and samples with hot swap) and far better midi editing in 12, midi comping, midi capture, automated midi pattern generation (like built in scaler, cord generator, riffer, drum pattern generator etc). It also has global and track scales, fold to scales and scales that even work on the filters etc. Audio to midi is also very useful for butting things back to midi to work with.

I didn't bother trying Live 12 and yes, for me, Bitwig is still better... by a big margin.

You couldn't pay me to switch back to the Live browser. Bitwig's popup browser is so freakin fast. 80% of the time I know what I want to put on a track and in those cases, it is literally 3-6 seconds and I don't need mouse movements/clicks or even to look at the screen.

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

Regarding the new midi pattern generation in Live. I've had plugins for quite a while that fulfill those tasks quite well so it's already covered for me in Bitwig.

The scale stuff would have some utility for me, but in Bitwig I can already make a project where all the tracks follow the chords/scales of one track. That makes it easy to add off notes in places or change scales during the composition... even on the fly.

If you or anyone else prefer Live, have at it. There is no one right answer. For me, Bitwig is freakin amazing!

[Dalle]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

[pdxindy]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

[Dalle]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

At least as long as I’ve used Live since version 9. Coming from Logic one of my favorite features was how integrated and fast the browser was

[Dalle]

Delete

[machinesworking]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

For years at least. I will say owning both, that both soft brained developers decided that presets and other choices besides VST should be on top half the time, which makes both of your instant thing, not a reality here. The routine is the same in both, with a slight advantage to Live.

In Bitwig if you haven't already selected the tracks, you have to do that, then 'b' works to pull up the pop up browser, then you generally have to use the arrow keys to navigate to the actual VST over the presets and loops it presents.

In Live anywhere you are you hit command f and it puts you in the search field, then you navigate past the presets and loops it presents to get to the VST / AU.

It's not every time, depends on how close the name of the plugin is to the presets and loops, but the fact that both developers decided that content is the priority over plugins is a PITA, and I haven't figured out any way to change the behavior in either DAW. I acknowledge this is a minor complaint compared to other DAWs having even more steps, but I would like control over the order that they present results.

[Dalle]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

For years at least. I will say owning both, that both soft brained developers decided that presets and other choices besides VST should be on top half the time, which makes both of your instant thing, not a reality here. The routine is the same in both, with a slight advantage to Live.

In Bitwig if you haven't already selected the tracks, you have to do that, then 'b' works to pull up the pop up browser, then you generally have to use the arrow keys to navigate to the actual VST over the presets and loops it presents.

In Live anywhere you are you hit command f and it puts you in the search field, then you navigate past the presets and loops it presents to get to the VST / AU.

It's not every time, depends on how close the name of the plugin is to the presets and loops, but the fact that both developers decided that content is the priority over plugins is a PITA, and I haven't figured out any way to change the behavior in either DAW. I acknowledge this is a minor complaint compared to other DAWs having even more steps, but I would like control over the order that they present results.

Plugins are always listed as first results for me in Live

[pdxindy]

If I want to add Hive, I open the popup, type "hi", down arrow, enter, done... Hive is in the track before I would get my mouse over to the browser in Live. It's muscle memory at this point and takes no mental focus unlike looking at the screen and moving the mouse and making multiple clicks.

If I want to do that in Live I press Command+F, type “hi” and double tap enter.

Has that always been there?

At least as long as I’ve used Live since version 9. Coming from Logic one of my favorite features was how integrated and fast the browser was

I would have liked to have known that when I was still using Live!

So I assume Cmd-F highlights the search field. Once you type "hi" and it selects Hive, does down arrow work to select other results beginning with "hi"?

In the Bitwig popup browser, I can type "hi", down arrow to select Hive, then right arrow goes to Hive's presets and clears and highlights the search field so I can start a new search for a specific Hive preset.