What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[BertKoor]

What do the following have in common?

Hammond organ, drum computer, Fender e-piano...

They were intended to mimick something existing!

[Bunny_boy]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

Why would you call that Mu-Dance ?

Cause I can't write μ easily.
It think it's wrong for the duration anyways!

[Jac459]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

Why would you call that Mu-Dance ?

Cause I can't write μ easily.
It think it's wrong for the duration anyways!

lol.... Ok, gotcha... Quite lame I didn't got you though... Now it feels quite obvious.

I can't wait to listen to your first 1h Spotify playlist with 7200 bangers in it...

I see a problem though. I think you monetise only if your stream is listened for more than 30 seconds... Meaning 60 times lol.

[Bunny_boy]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

Why would you call that Mu-Dance ?

Cause I can't write μ easily.
It think it's wrong for the duration anyways!

lol.... Ok, gotcha... Quite lame I didn't got you though... Now it feels quite obvious.

I can't wait to listen to your first 1h Spotify playlist with 7200 bangers in it...

I see a problem though. I think you monetise only if your stream is listened for more than 30 seconds... Meaning 60 times lol.

That means change is needed

Not just a revolution in dance music then - a revolution in renumeration!

I've now got this image of a Spotify playlist that can be measured in metres rather than just tracklisting. And all the songs should have really long titles.

[lobanov]

1. soundmodel, who are you? What is the point of your interest regarding the novelty in music? Are you a musician? Or a "music engineer"? Or just a philospher, a theoretician?

2. I'm sure that the concept of novelty is wrong, misleading. What we are exploring is "novelty + usefulness". Novelty without usefullness is void. If somebody wants to be a successful innovator he/she must create something useful. It must be so cool, so musical etc. that many people start wanting to repeat, reproduce it.

That means that any successful innovation creates new ordinarity.

[lobanov]

Sorry, double post.

[Jac459]

1. soundmodel, who are you? What is the point of your interest regarding the novelty in music? Are you a musician? Or a "music engineer"? Or just a philospher, a theoretician?

2. I'm sure that the concept of novelty is wrong, misleading. What we are exploring is "novelty + usefulness". Novelty without usefullness is void. If somebody wants to be a successful innovator he/she must create something useful. It must be so cool, so musical etc. that many people start wanting to repeat, reproduce it.

That means that any successful innovation creates new ordinarity.

Clearly.... But that means that innovator are often strong expert in their field first.

[Bunny_boy]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance.

as in 'mu-dancehancers?'

Well, I was more thinking (ex post facto really, but the way brains work, etc) about the recreational substances for this, and I think cake has to be the substance of choice

[Jac459]

I'll create a new genre now: mu-dance. Each song lasts 0.5s. To DJ takes quite a lot of tunes, and unfortunately the logistics of DJing vinyl as pretty poor.
Its got a few subgenres: one where the song is written conventionally then time stretched to 0.5s; one where existing songs are remixed to 0.5s, and one where the actual song is written as 0.5s

Why would you call that Mu-Dance ?

Cause I can't write μ easily.
It think it's wrong for the duration anyways!

lol.... Ok, gotcha... Quite lame I didn't got you though... Now it feels quite obvious.

I can't wait to listen to your first 1h Spotify playlist with 7200 bangers in it...

I see a problem though. I think you monetise only if your stream is listened for more than 30 seconds... Meaning 60 times lol.

That means change is needed

Not just a revolution in dance music then - a revolution in renumeration!

I've now got this image of a Spotify playlist that can be measured in metres rather than just tracklisting. And all the songs should have really long titles.

If the titles are very long, and we reduce drastically the quality of the 0.5s songs, (to 8 bits, 11khz for example), then we could have more information in the title than in the song itself.

Let's assume than the characters in Spotify are encoded in a standard manner (UTF8). One character would take exactly .... 8 bits of data.
So in order to take more data than 11khz, we "only" need 5,501 characters. I think it is pretty reasonable. if we take an average of 5.5 letters per word (for the sake of simplicity), that would mean a title with only 1000 words...

I don't know you but personally I am convinced. I am starting now.

[Bunny_boy]

A 1000 words per song title seems reasonable.

Maybe this is part of it - the music itself is secondary to the other information, like what it's about, the emotional response, etc.

Baudrillaud eat your heart out!!!

[lobanov]

But that means that innovator are often strong expert in their field first.

Yes, absolutely. An engineer is a musician. He knows music, can play instruments or knows how to do it. He isn't a wizard, he is an amateur may be. But he can. And he defenitely understands musicians' needs.

[lobanov]

"Tips to overleap conventionality in electronic music?"

It's not possible. We can just "destabilize" conventionality for a moment. And change it, transform it. Conventionality will be restored. In a new state. It's inevitable. It's how things work. It's in the nature of music, culture etc.

[soundmodel]

1. soundmodel, who are you? What is the point of your interest regarding the novelty in music? Are you a musician? Or a "music engineer"? Or just a philospher, a theoretician?

2. I'm sure that the concept of novelty is wrong, misleading. What we are exploring is "novelty + usefulness". Novelty without usefullness is void. If somebody wants to be a successful innovator he/she must create something useful. It must be so cool, so musical etc. that many people start wanting to repeat, reproduce it.

That means that any successful innovation creates new ordinarity.

1. All, and I think electronic musicians should be "music engineers". I am bored with most sounds and tools, because their palette is mainly tailored for the conventional (acid basses, plucks, jupiter strings, dubstep drums, drum & bass drums, "IDM sounds", MIDI notes, ...). I have access to several of the more experimental types of tools, and I can program. To me a lot of people in this thread just don't seem to have a clue about where to look at, because e.g. Ryoji Ikeda and CNNs are certainly novel, but they're not necessarily appealing or accessible, because it's literally "code as music". Some people think that computer programs are not music or art. I wonder how many here know about Pure Data (https://puredata.info/) for example.

To be honest, plenty of "ooh that's a new plug-in" stuff has been in these more esoteric libraries for a long time, since the 90s maybe. Like regarding physical modelling or granular synthesis.

2. Exactly, and there have been several of those genre-opening people, who others begin to mimick while not being original anymore. You get a novel idea regarding beat cutting, then you get iZotope Stutter Edit.

What I thought of getting in answers was things like: what about a CNN doing X and Y? Haven't seen much of those ideas.

[whyterabbyt]

To me a lot of people in this thread just don't seem to have a clue about where to look at, because e.g. Ryoji Ikeda and CNNs are certainly novel, but they're not necessarily appealing or accessible, because it's literally "code as music". Some people think that computer programs are not music or art. I wonder how many here know about Pure Data (https://puredata.info/) for example.

sigh. there you go again, thinking you're the guy who knows it all and that noone else has the slightest insight you think you do.
tons of people here know about pure data, and plugdata and all the variants. and faust. and max/msp, and supercollider, and csound, and CDP and all sorts of stuff you've probably never heard of. First Music-N language I touched was CMIX, in the late 80s so probably a decade before you were even born.

search.php?keywords=puredata

[whyterabbyt]

Starting to feel like the thread needs to be renamed to 'tips to overcome dunning kruger in understanding the history of electronic music'