Roli Seaboard RISE

[TOYZ]

I am going to go and remind myself whether developers have access to raw x & y from the device. I believe they do, but I need to make sure I didnt misremember. Assuming they do, then it is well do-able to write an app that spits out the microtonal midi you desire, with the main barrier being tedium rather than difficulty - will have to write entirely new code to do all the midi/MPE stuff and ignore all the built in stuff that does that.

I would assume that the SeaBoard Rise hardware device itself is MPE compatible. In that case there would be no SysEx data for the touch events, just regular MIDI note on/off, channel pressure and controller data with each MIDI channel being used for one note as per the MPE specs.

EDIT: Great, a large portion of my original reply got lost when I hit submit. Slightly shortened version:

It's quite possible, and even likely, that Roli use SysEx for some things but it would (or should) not be needed for playing-related data.

I wonder if they send pressure and Y-axis in 14-bit or 7-bit resolution, the MPE spec allows both. I also wonder about the response curve and if there would be some way to customize it (for instance through SysEx) within the device. The CME X-Key allows that for instance. Open source would be cool tool.

But if the data is available in 14-bit resolution through MPE it would be easy to create a custom curve mapping in software.

[Thulo]

Ok now I kind of had it with roli.
I have had my rise 49 for about 6 months now and I've had very little fun time and mostly troubleshooting.
First of all there is the problem with pressure not reseting to 0 when a key is lifted. All other mpe controllers put pressure to 0 when no key is pressed witch seems to be the logical thing because there is no pressure. Instead roli thinks that you should not use pressure to control the volume of your instruments but the volume of your envelope witch makes it really expensive in the modular/hardware world. If i try to control a vca with pressure i get hanging notes depending on how fast I release the key. I have been asking them for an option in the dashboard for this but they say that there isn't enough people asking for this feature.

So now i want to sell my seaboard because i never use it as the plugin is way too intensive on the cpu. So I test it fir the first time in a while and i notice that the touch faders and the x/y pad have stoped working. Both in roli mode and i midi mode. Only the middle slider is working.

Panic!

So I have been trying to get a hold of the support now for 2 days but nothing.... Usually they have that chat window witch is super but i guess they are all on vacation or something.

Is there someone who got a link or something from roli so that i can reset the damn thing or recalibrate or something.. Please!

[TOYZ]

Double post deleted

[TOYZ]

So I test it fir the first time in a while and i notice that the touch faders and the x/y pad have stoped working. Both in roli mode and i midi mode. Only the middle slider is working.

How did you test? Have you tried using a MIDI monitor such as MIDI-OX to see if any data is being sent if you use the touch faders or x/y pad?

I would hate it if this would be another example of failed hardware. Sure in forums there's usually a bias towards posting about problems rather than about stuff just working like it should but still... Hope this is a case of user error or some software issue.

[Thulo]

I have tested with the dashboard fro the sliders and with Logic as it shows the cc's.
I have gotten a reply from support now and reinstalled the firmware and that fixed one of the sliders.
Still missing one slider and the x/y pad.

By clicking shift and update in the dashboard you are able to install a downloaded firmware and not from the internet.

[TOYZ]

I'm curious, does anyone know which sensor technology Roli is using? Their patent applications list two suggestions: FSR strips from Interlink and Quantum Tunneling Composite material based sensors from Peratech.

The latter seems like a really good match for something like this:

M2450-154361-ZF
154 x 361mm, 24 x 50 3-dimension matrix force sensor with bonded flexible printed circuit tail for connection into the MT-TPU-V2R2 (Multi-Touch Touch Processing Unit)

QTC Multi-force Matrix Sensors provide true pressure sensing feedback as well as position information. As force is applied to the individual sensels in the electrode array, the resistance output drops at each touch point.

A pressure map can then be plotted for the whole sensor. Multiple touch point positions and pressure can then be interpolated and palm rejection is also possible.

The rows/columns in the matrix are continuously scanned to sense multiple force touches simultaneously – providing true 3D next generation multi-force data.

Applications

> Trackspads, under-display touch
> Large format multi-touch surfaces

I have looked at FSR strips from Interlink myself when I was looking into getting or building a ribbon controller but these aren't position sensitive. Something likethis Linear SoftPot Ribbon Sensor would be easier to use, although it would not allow multi-touch on a single sensor but I don't think the Roli's allow that at the moment (the TouchKeys sensors do, you can actually 'tap' the top of a key whle holding it and it wil register as a second or third touch point that can be used to trigger something).

[tapper mike]

Does Jordan Rudess get a different version than average consumers? just sayin.

[Jace-BeOS]

I have tested with the dashboard fro the sliders and with Logic as it shows the cc's.
I have gotten a reply from support now and reinstalled the firmware and that fixed one of the sliders.
Still missing one slider and the x/y pad.

By clicking shift and update in the dashboard you are able to install a downloaded firmware and not from the internet.

What would result in a need to reinstall it? The data self-corrupts over time??

[TOYZ]

Does Jordan Rudess get a different version than average consumers? just sayin.

Without actual data on the number of units sold and failed units, we only have partial, anecdotal 'data' (which is an oxymoron in my book) on the failure rate of these things and that 'data' is probably going to be biased due to people being more likely to post if they have a problem vs if everything is working as it should.

[TOYZ]

I have gotten a reply from support now and reinstalled the firmware and that fixed one of the sliders.

What would result in a need to reinstall it? The data self-corrupts over time??

It does sound strange but it's not a completely isolated case. I believe there have been one or two posts where the top two octaves or something didn't work and this was fixed by re-installing the firmware. Maybe just the act of installing the firmware triggers something else, such as a re-calibration of the sensors or something. Still strange that something, calibration or whatever, seems to be able get out of wack just like that.

In general a hardware failure would seem a much more likely cause for this kinda thing but that would not be fixed by a firmware re-install. On the other hand it only fixed one slider and not the other sensors. What's up with that?

[Thulo]

My guess is that reinstalling the firmware also starts some kind of calibration process.
However i droped it of at the store where i bought it so it will be fixed. They said that ill probably just get a new one.

[TOYZ]

I'm reading some of the reviews of the Rise, which are all from a while ago (the one below is from December 2015), and I noticed this:

Above and below the keywaves are 3/4"-wide flat sections called pitch ribbons. Though you can use these to play the Rise like an Ondes Martenot or electro-theremin, they’re most useful for sliding into notes by moving your finger from a ribbon to a keywave. Even with the Glide parameter up full, though, you can’t do an entirely smooth glide because the pitches are stepped.

Can anybody tell me if this is still accurate? Are the pitches stepped on the 'ribbons' above and below the keys or can you disable this and get entirely smooth glides with no stepping?

[himalaya]

It's a matter of good playing technique. If you glide too close to the keywaves you will inadvertently catch the chromatic notes and the pitch-bend will not be as smooth as you would probably like. It's easily done. However, if you do it slightly below the keywaves, and without applying too much pressure, it's very smooth.

[himalaya]

The other thing relates to the pitch expression fader. If it's not set to 100% max then you will get pitch-rounding. If you are not careful, you can push this fader up, thinking that it's all the way up, but it won't be. You need to slide up and give the fader a little 'push' right at the top - to make sure you've reached 100%. This needs to be done because this is not a physical fader where you can see the cap and you can feel when it reaches the end of its travel.

Another technique for setting the fader at its maximum value is to simply press at the very top. Done. Max value and no pitch-rounding.

[TOYZ]

Thanks!