Mixbus 32C Released

[jens]

Gawd, could you put the edit and the quote button any closer together?

happens to me all the time too nowadays - in the past it didn't - also some other site features were a lot easier to use (such as the plugin database) - it's the same as with many websites - they take a fully functional site and attempt to improve it and with that Keep making it worse and worse...

You would not believe how easy KVR was to use and navigate ten years ago.

[Googly Smythe]

Steinberg/Harrison

I know they're talking about sound-to-film here, but wouldn't it be nice if Cubase 9 came with Mixbus integrated into the mixer... Minus the bugs, of course.

[Compyfox]

I don't know what the one thing has to do with the other. Apart from that, i don't believe that customers are weak-willed sheep which have to eat everything they are being served. Noone has to upgrade, and if you don't like the fact that you can't demo before upgrading, then why the hell would you upgrade if you don't know what to expect?

This is indeed a valid argumentation - and the main reason why "where is the demo" is such a hot topic with pretty much every developer. May it be a newcomer, or an old cat. May it be a 5USD tool, or one for 500USD. Depending on how complex this is, and whether or not a refund policy is existing.

Btw, i didn't know that every company offers a refund now when you bought their software online. Care to elaaborate?

Apparently not every company. Harrison (in this case for example) does not offer a refund policy. Then again, they also don't offer a demo. So you always(!) buy the cat in the hat - no chance to test the tool in question before, neither to get your money back if it's broken.

If I take a look at the big 4 host providers... all of them do not necessarily offer refund policies (read: none), but they do at least offer demo versions. On day one or up to half a year later... that is a completely different topic.

You would not believe how easy KVR was to use and navigate ten years ago.

<insert "I miss the old KVR" comment>

Steinberg/Harrison

I know they're talking about sound-to-film here, but wouldn't it be nice if Cubase 9 came with Mixbus integrated into the mixer... Minus the bugs, of course.

Uh oh... I really, really, really hope that this is only down to collaborating regarding the digital console integration (control protocol), so that the Nuage isn't the only device to ideally communicate with CuBendo (Nuendo Live mostly...).

I actually do NOT want to see anything of Mixbus being integrated (hard coded) into Cubase. Like, at all! As crazy as that sounds. Keep things separate, rule out bugs (read: evade them like the plague). Cubase has had enough of them already in recent years (they're slowly recovering after all).


Now I'm even more worried about C9 end of 2016...

[LawrenceF]

Jeez, people are really hardcore sensitive these days when they always feel like being treated as a "thief and criminal".

Yeah. Most people here own like ... 7-8 daws already... ... so as curious as that decision is, I don't see anything there worth more than a hot minute or two of discussion.

I suppose you probably can't demo $199 Logic either, unless Apple lets people download a demo from the Apple Store, no idea. Other than those two I can't think of any others doing that with any other music software product, so with it being an anomaly of sorts, it becomes a topic for the generally curious.

Nothing to lose any sleep over. I can make music without it.

[Compyfox]

Right... Logic Pro's demo is basically Garageband (according to the App Store - 5EUR, but still less risky than 300USD!)

[Robert Randolph]

Right... Logic Pro's demo is basically Garageband (according to the App Store - 5EUR, but still less risky than 300USD!)

And plugin compatibility issues are basically a non-issue with Logic. If your AUs work, they work in logic 99.9% of the time.

[chk071]

For Mac people, i guess there's not many alternatives anyway. Or at least people know what they will get with Logic. My "demo" of Cubase (before buying the Elements version of it) was the LE version on a mag's DVD btw. I can't recall ever really demo'ing any DAW tbh. Studio One 2 Producer i bought because it was sold for a no-brainer price here in the market place. I frankly don't even know how vital DAW demos are for your purchase decision. At least for me, it was pretty clear what i would get. And there's enough small versions, LE versions, free entry level versions that it's really quite hard not to end up with something you'd be able to use to get a look into the software. And in this particular case, i don't get it at all, as it's pretty clear what you'll get, at least if you owned a former version of Mixbus, and get a heads up on the new features. Of course, if you're a new user, and wonder if you want to purchase the software or not, it's kind of a bummer. But then, it's their business decision... if they don't care about new users, or they think everyone is willing to shell out 200 bucks to buy a pig in a poke, so then be it.

[Compyfox]

The thing is, and this is what has been criticized a couple of times with other hosts (Steinberg especially in recent years, Cakewalk Sonar as well), you not only buy the cat in the hat... you also don't know if your bugs are really fixed. Or if this is just another way to gather income and the bugs are still there.

Yes, you can(!) somewhat demo ARDOUR, but according to the Harrison representatives - it's a modded version of ARDOUR, a different development branch. So there is NO WAY to check if your issues have been addressed in either form. Unless you shell out money. And if you realize "still not fixed", there is no money back guarantee.


At least with other hosts, you have some sort of "demo" possibility. May it be a rundown version (Garageband to Logic - where Logic is the "backbone"). But in this case, it's your hand in a snake pit, trying to grab a key while you are blindfolded. You know what features to expect, but you don't know if they will even work.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

Right... Logic Pro's demo is basically Garageband (according to the App Store - 5EUR, but still less risky than 300USD!)

not to forget apple offer a full refund up to 90 days

I got refunded on logic X and re bought it a year later when it was stable.


BTW if anyone is curious how this works.. with every app store purchase, you get an email receipt, and within that receipt is a button named "report a problem".

Click that, and just type in the info even if you simply just don't like logic, that you would like a refund. Within 5 business days the money is back on your card or faster if you used itunes credit.

Support explained to me that this is standard for apple.. so there's no real risk in trying Logic.. garageband is still free with macs, so if someone buys a mac, garageband will serve as an appropriate demo, as it is precisely logic minus some features.. identical dsp engine/look/feel.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

The thing is, and this is what has been criticized a couple of times with other hosts (Steinberg especially in recent years, Cakewalk Sonar as well), you not only buy the cat in the hat... you also don't know if your bugs are really fixed. Or if this is just another way to gather income and the bugs are still there.

Yes, you can(!) somewhat demo ARDOUR, but according to the Harrison representatives - it's a modded version of ARDOUR, a different development branch. So there is NO WAY to check if your issues have been addressed in either form. Unless you shell out money. And if you realize "still not fixed", there is no money back guarantee.


At least with other hosts, you have some sort of "demo" possibility. May it be a rundown version (Garageband to Logic - where Logic is the "backbone"). But in this case, it's your hand in a snake pit, trying to grab a key while you are blindfolded. You know what features to expect, but you don't know if they will even work.

i did join harrison forum and managed to download mixbus and run it in demo mode a couple months back. All i got was crashes every 5 minutes (OS 10.10.5 at the time). I don't know if that's still possible, but technically it's no different to giving an email to download a demo, which is standard practise for some devs like izotope for example. I can check the forum and see if there's any builds of 32C to download and if this "trick" still works to demo.

Also, i am NOT condoning warez (i have to be very careful what i say at KVR), but a quick search and read up showed that mixbus is fully "modified and available to bad people to download". So this no official demo policy still baffles me, as technically, anyone smart enough to use a DAW can search for an alternative "demo" version. I somewhat feel harrison are shooting themselves in the foot. I read multiple reports of people saying that they would have bought it, but "screw harrison for no demo", so they use the "bad" version instead in spite. Of course that's just self justification to not feel guilty about doing the wrong thing, but I still can't understand how no demo is a good business decision. And i find harrison's "reason" rather evasive and a bit condescending. And it's not just "professionals" that would be interested in mix bus.
The latest one at gearslutz i read from Ben, is that mixbus is not being marketed as a full daw at all, it is a mixer with some daw/midi features. I had no idea this was the case.

Also, i find steinberg's magneto 3 built into every cubase channel to sound fantastic, and steinberg console is a fully fledged channel mixer, with the only downside i can possibly find being that the cut filters don't have Q. That's about the only shortfall. Also, steinberg's tube compressor is wonderful, and overall it is a much more powerful product than mixbus. Now you can say mixbus is cheaper, but i don't believe it is. Cause to buy mixbus with the plugins that cubase has standard (like the incredible multi band stuff), it costs much more than Cubase. ($599 on current special, over $1100 regular price, for mixbus 32c and some plugins! No jokes!)

I like the look of mixbus, and besides the crashes it was very user friendly. However until Ben's post at GS yesterday, i was under the impression it was going to be continued to be developed as a fully fledged daw in both midi and audio editing department, but i found out it doesn't even import rex files and doesn't even stretch acid files.. to me those are basic things.

So how it's actually being sold is that you compose in your favourite daw, bounce dry stems then mix them in mixbus. And we can't even "officially" demo whether we like the SOUND of that, which is what harrison are selling. What happens if someone buys it and they don't like the harrison saturation? What about if their favourite plugins don't work, or if the cpu usage is too high for their system? (apparently 32c is very hungry cause of the saturation and cpu can not be saved per channel by disabling features). AFAIK no licenses transfers either?

Finally, unless i am mistaken, mixbus is the only audio daw on the market without a way to officially demo AND no refund policy?

[Sailor16]

Update: I'm getting such great mixing results in Mixbus 32C it's almost ridiculous!

This is not just Mixbus with a few more mixbusses and EQ additions. It's a completely different sound, with much better low end and more sparkle. What did they do??

Takes me back to the 70's and 80's. Today I'm using Studio One as my main DAW and along with its great Console Shaper (Mix Engine FX), Mixbus 32C adds that special additional analogue warmth I couldn't achieve just from Studio One alone.

Well done Harrison

[ontol]

[Googly Smythe]

... the guy (Bob T) they hired to promote it on KVR is too shy to engage the community....

Too scared! And who can blame him!

[ontol]

[Endor-8o8]

The thing is, and this is what has been criticized a couple of times with other hosts (Steinberg especially in recent years, Cakewalk Sonar as well), you not only buy the cat in the hat... you also don't know if your bugs are really fixed. Or if this is just another way to gather income and the bugs are still there.

Yes, you can(!) somewhat demo ARDOUR, but according to the Harrison representatives - it's a modded version of ARDOUR, a different development branch. So there is NO WAY to check if your issues have been addressed in either form. Unless you shell out money. And if you realize "still not fixed", there is no money back guarantee.


At least with other hosts, you have some sort of "demo" possibility. May it be a rundown version (Garageband to Logic - where Logic is the "backbone"). But in this case, it's your hand in a snake pit, trying to grab a key while you are blindfolded. You know what features to expect, but you don't know if they will even work.

So how it's actually being sold is that you compose in your favourite daw, bounce dry stems then mix them in mixbus. And we can't even "officially" demo whether we like the SOUND of that, which is what harrison are selling. What happens if someone buys it and they don't like the harrison saturation? What about if their favourite plugins don't work, or if the cpu usage is too high for their system? (apparently 32c is very hungry cause of the saturation and cpu can not be saved per channel by disabling features). AFAIK no licenses transfers either?

Finally, unless i am mistaken, mixbus is the only audio daw on the market without a way to officially demo AND no refund policy?

Well like I said in another thread concerning Mixbus. I had this constant crash when launching Mixbus 3 and choosing the audio parameters. Right after choosing the ASIO or any driver possibilities and clicking the apply box it always freezed and crashed (Windows 8.1, x64). I sent some mails detailing my configuration and what I was doing, but the only answer I got (after 2 or 3 back and forth) was "it's a too complicated bug, we won't be able to solve it. Here's your refund."
So basically when you have a bug with Mixbus and if their tech support can't handle it they refund you. What kind of support gives up so easily on bug correction ?!
Especially on compatibilty bug with audio drivers that other peoples were experiencing...
I had my license since Mixbus 2.5 and never get it to run without any compatibility problems. My system is pretty solid and I have other audio soft which run smoothly (Ableton, Pro Tools, Reaper, Reason...), but
their soft is just completely unstable (not mentionning the horrible VST compatibility).