KVR Audio

FakuVe · Post by **FakuVe** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:04 am

Hello

I need your help for my next decision of purchasing.

My budget is restricted, but I want to buy a good afordable Analog Synth to;

- Record Samples for Drums
- Mainly do the whole bassline and subbass of the songs
- Do a lead voice

My budget is restricted and I cannot spend more than 350 GBP.

Also my restrictions are:

- True analog sound (I dont want any aliasing at all, just want the real sound)
- CC Message controllable with the DAW (I use Ableton live 9)

(I want to fiddle with its own knobs but when music producing and sequencing I want to be able to control it externally vida MIDI CC Messages)

I already Own a Volca Bass, it is good but its limited to a certain type of sound, I want a do it all with good sound and affordable.

--Discarded KORG MS-20 due to the CC limitation (a pitty)

--Dave Smith Mopho: Seems to be a little bit expensive and not really fiddleable with my own hands.

--Cyclone Analogic TT-303 : I already have Korg Volca Bass, also is really limited on sound

--Arturia Mini Brute (or Micro Brute): Im checking Mini Brute cause the price is almost the same.
So a pitty that only has 1 OSC, but it seems exactly what Im looking for (I was thinking to use Volca Bass Oscilators and Input to it).

I like it , the sound seems to be nice, just a question. Does it has MIDI CC Implementation? I mean CC Messages that can vary all the parameters such as Cutoff Freq, Resonance, Envelope etc...

-- Novation Bass Station 2 : Seems the perfect one , 2 OSC, 2 Filters, MIDI Implemented ...

Everything fine till I read "With its range of up to four octaves":It is just restricted to four octaves? So I can just use it for Bass and Drums but not for Lead I guess.
"filter lacks variable keyboard tracking"
"its oscillators are DCOs rather than VCOs": Does this means any kind of aliasing can appear or any digital side effect?

What do you think about this? Do you know any other synth which fullfills all this requirements for a affordable price?

Thank you!!

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:10 am

This comes up quite a lot, and the BS2 does have many more features and patch storage.

I don't think the Arturia synths have full CC implementation.

I do have a TT303 right now and it's miles and miles ahead of 'that' 303 sound compared to a Volca Bass btw.

FakuVe · Post by **FakuVe** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:49 am

I dont know Im not an expert on the field but I thought the MIDI Protocol was widespread between manufacturarers and nowadays with DAWs it should be implemented for each synth.
First Im finding problems with CC orders and Ableton live, which is External Instrument dosent send CC Messages and I had to download a Max 4 live device.

On the other hand I dont know why synths dosent have this implemented. How do the pros do then? They write down in a papper how they do each patch and how they change the parameters over a song? That is too much work, plus if you have to manually fiddle more than the cutoff frequency you are limited.
And its right, Volca Bass is good to fiddle a little bit, but if you want to get a little bit serious into the matter it becomes a toy, fun but not professional. (ie.It dosent let you CC control the Filter parameters)

Well thank you anyways, please more ideas, I think Im leaning for Novation Bass Station 2, but if its MIDI Implemented I think Arturia Minibrute can be a piece of hardware I can keep forever.

werp · Post by **werp** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:06 am

the bass station two is a no-brainer at the price. build quality is good, keybed is excellent, patch memories, aftertouch. it does lack cv ins and outs though. I think the build quality of the minibrute is questionable and it sounds nasty...not in a great way either.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:42 am

I love the nasty sound of the Minibrute. I've never liked the Novation sound going way back to my original BS Rack which I still own, and I still don't like it in the new version. But I agree that the BS2 wins on features. Also, personally I would dump the Volca bass and get the Volca keys instead. I have both, and the keys is a way more interesting and versatile instrument.

Michael L · Post by **Michael L** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:42 am

If you don't need a keyboard, look at Dave Smith's Evolver desktop. It's on sale now for $449 at jrr and elsewhere. It has a matrix design (knob columns / button rows) so its difficult to perform live, but the sound (to me) is just beautiful with incredible sonic variety, and there is a sound editor app (by SoundTower) to control every parameter (~120) with your computer (via 5pin midi-to-usb). I have both. It also has a good manual, and a separate excellent written tutorial. Plenty of youtube demos.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:31 am

IMHO, the DSI Evolver sucks as an analog synth. The oscillators are not exactly stunning, and the filter is really weak. Now, as a digital wavesequencing synth, its great. But that isn't what the OP was looking for. I have a PEK, by the way, so I'm speaking from plenty of first-hand experience.

maschinelf · Post by **maschinelf** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:35 am

+1 for BS2

Just sold a Minibrute, and bought a BS2. Extra features on the BS2 made it a no-brainer. The oscillator section on the MB is pretty special though, and the BS2 doesn't have the same gritty character as the brutes and can seem a bit more sterile. Why not get a Microbrute later? That way you'll also get the brute sound, along with the more versatile BS2.

JRR has an absolutely ridiculous bargain on them for Black Friday but then you'll have to pay shipping to the UK. Thomann seems to be the cheapest I could find in EU, but they were out of stock last week and told me they'd be back in stock around the 30th.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:52 am

There is no MIDI CC control over the MiniBrute. You cant control it via your host (ie automating knobs etc)

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:33 am

The BassStation II is quite versatile actually, I'd recommend it as a cheap analog.
It's obviously a synth marketed towards bass, but it's possible to make an entire track with it… and some external FX
Only room for 128 patches, but that's more than many other modern analogs.

FakuVe · Post by **FakuVe** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:01 am

Thank you all , it seems that you like the VS BS2 vs MinBrute jejejem.

Summing up I think Im going to buy definitely Novation Bass Station 2, cause I would like so much to have like a semi modular synth (like Korg MS-20) but the CC limitation really kills for me any synthesizer.
I see it cool to experiment with, patching manually the synth so you get the feeling of the rooting, but when it comes to produce an actual Song you need to get the best sound, that means that any knob has to be perfectly on its right place, this means automation is a basic and I still dont understand how the hell the top producers can use this sort of synthetisers without CC Control.
Well maybe they can buy one for each different patch that they do and leave the knobs and patches on its place. For me thats different.

I was checking also latsly Waldorf Pulse 2 , but just see that chunk of metal it makes it ugly. If prefer to see some envelope faders on the pannel.

Hope by the way that I can really do FM with the Bass Station 2 and a precise Contour Generator, I really want to do my own drum sounds with it also.

Thanks

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:50 pm

I bought the Pulse 2 and BS 2 at the same time.
Sold the Waldorf almost immediately, just cause I find the 4 knob editing a pain.
The sound is great, better than the BS in many ways, but user friendly it ain't (in my opinion).
I mean, the Virus Snow for example, at least it has a plugin you can use… and the 128 stepped MIDI control in the Waldorf Pulse 2 is a bit lame considering the price. It's a great synth, great sound i mean, but the BassStation is so much quicker and more fun to program.
The BS has 'bank' editing of the oscillators and envelopes, which is a tad lame, but that Waldorf 'matrix' programming (whatever it's called) is so f**king 80's… WE WANT HANDS ON. Sure, you saved yourself $10 in components Waldorf, but you sucked the life out of it.
And those f**king slippery metal knobs, i mean come on.

conundrum · Post by **conundrum** » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:32 pm

shadowdancerbnr · Post by **shadowdancerbnr** » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:38 pm

I got a BSII when it was recently down to 279GBP. I initially had reservations about the fixed filter tracking and lack of one-control-per-function but, for the price, it is absolutely the best analog mono you'll find.

The original BS was awful, but Novation have vastly improved it here. I've been after a convincing replacement for my old SH101 for 4 years....had the DSI Mopho Keys for a while but it never 100% gelled with me (always found it quite "raspy", with underwhelming filters and a pretty poorly implemented semi-matrix-style of programming interface). The BSII can get extremely close to a 101.

It doesn't sound digital, either, and its filter can scream in a very musical way. Personally, I find the Arturia monos a little too harsh, with a very limited sweet spot that can very quickly get pushed into unpleasant, "unmusical" territory.

Of course, it really depends what you want from a mono. I, personally, find the 101/202 sound endlessly satisfying, so the BSII is a no-brainer in that regard.

alphavoyager · Post by **alphavoyager** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:28 pm

As an owner of Minibrute and a potential buyer of Bass Station2 I have this to say:
- First and foremost, be aware that BS2 doesn't have adjustable filter tracking. This is the reason why I still didn't buy it. I'm waiting if they will implement this in the future OS update. But it looks there are very little chances as it seems it is hardwired to 100% in hardware. Having 100% filter tracking is ridiculous. Really. Usually a value from zero to 50 percent is used. You need full tracking only if you want to play the self-oscillating filter.
- The interface of Minibrute is knob/slider/switch per function. Everything is there right at your fingertips. The BS2 shares one set of controls for both oscillators, both LFO's and both envelopes. This sucks and they didn't even implement a knob pickup mode, although their older synths did have this. If you're a synth programmer this can be a pain in the a**.
- Minibrute is all analog, BS2 isn't. MB's controls are directly wired to the analog circuit and because there is no digital processing there (no memory) the controls are not quantised, not stepped. Everything is perfectly smooth, analog. Also, the MB uses a VCO, voltage controled oscillator. Yes, it has only one VCO, but what a VCO it is! It's quite stable and with all the waveforms and options it gives you a sound palette unlike any other 1 VCO synth. Well, the Roland Alpha Juno is somewhat similar in sense that it offers similar saw-width modulation and other waveforms.
- The sound of BS2 is cleaner than that of MB. Although the MB can sound very smooth and clean, too if you know what you're doing and don't reach for that brute factor all the time and keep waveform levels below 50%. MB is more limited than BS2 though, because it has only 1 LFO, a portamento with no other adjustments than rate, no velocity via the keyboard and the keyboard is not as nice. But sometimes less is more

Currently I take Minibrute over BS2 anytime because of the omission of that important parameter - filter keyboard tracking.

Novation Bass Station II or Arturia MiniBrute ?