KVR Audio

garryknight · Post by **garryknight** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:33 pm

If you don't mind retuning existing samples, have a look on looperman for choir samples. There are some pretty good ones there, especially the Choirs of Passion samples.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:51 pm

Teksonik wrote:
lfm wrote: I have Kontakt 4.3 license, I believe it is, but last times I tried to use it I found it was so full of bugs, and NI showed no interest in fixing it either.
Can't speak about 4.3 but Kontakt 5 is very stable here. There are also some awesome free vocal libraries available for Kontakt but I'm not sure what versions they support.

Anyway if I want realistic choirs I reach for Kontakt. (of the plugins I own).

It was stable for me too, it was just 4.05 I think that had issues with the new multithread loading - but fixed in 4.1 I think.

Issues I had were poor GIG import, which imported perfectly in Vsampler. In Kontakt I got multiple overlaps in velocity, and sounded boxy and not right.

Talked to NI, but they did not recognize but referred me to makers of GIG library. Somebody said NI license some import formats from Chickensys which are known to be buggy, maybe that is true.

So I tried importing Wav samples by different autoimport methods, on names referring to midi note and similar. But if name had a leading zero, like _01 it would not import to right note, but all on note zero.

Talked to NI, no interest in digging into that either. Tried some other methods like manually select the midi note, but let it autoimport to correct velocity range - did not work either. So I would have to take every sample and map manually to correct note and velocity range.

Did import into Independence, no problem at all - done in an hour for a full grand piano, three layers and release samples too. The Maestro Grand, is a Malmsjoe free library which is quite decent.

After that B4 never became 64-bit and discontinued.

Just felt I'm done with NI. I know there are a lot of libraries but can live without them.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:17 pm

garryknight wrote:If you don't mind retuning existing samples, have a look on looperman for choir samples. There are some pretty good ones there, especially the Choirs of Passion samples.

Quite nice that, I liked Games of Thrones as well.
Thanks for the tip.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:52 pm

Well, too many people relied so heavily and all the time on Kontakt 4, many for their livelihood so stating it's unusable due to so many bugs, this was not true for many people. No software is perfect, but I used K4 for yrs with no issue at all. I've encountered one or two things about Play that make me want to keep my use of it to a minimum, mainly slow loading, but it has a bad rep as being such a problem whereas many people rely on it professionally. I didn't experience your issue with giga conversion in K4, I use a fair amount of old giga. But you were traumatized and it's a no go.

I hated NI for a couple yrs behind the Kore debacle.

Anyway, for everybody else: the Choir in Kontakt 4 is fairly useful as your typical choir pad sort.
Obtaining a certain realism in detail with it would tend to frustrate most of us; changing vowel type, gets pretty fiddly. The killer choirs today, for me means Kontakt (IE., SoundIron in Kontakt). I have no interest really in EWQL. Lotta people had trouble with Word Builder, doesn't affect me, I don't really need it. I don't like working with the Play interface, albeit it tends just to work here.

Doug1978 · Post by **Doug1978** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:04 am

lfm wrote:Had a wah-pedal that could filter and sound a bit like vowels - so thought maybe different synthesis is possible?

Thinking general oooohhhh, aaaaaaaaaahhhh, sounds etc.

Have a choir voice in my Yamaha piano - which is not all bad, but fear a little too much distorted. If possible see if something really clean and nice sounding.

Alchemy has some great choir sounds, as does Omnisphere, both of which can be tweaked further using the excellent synthesis options there.

But my favorite choirs, whilst being anything but 'really clean', are from GForce's M-Tron Pro and its associated expansion packs: http://www.gforcesoftware.com/products/ ... apes/demos

(And whilst it's not what you asked for, Sampletekk in cooperation with Eric Stewart of 10CC released the beautiful INIL Choir Kontakt library)

Finally, if you're into Formant Synthesis, like me occasionally, here are some very useful Bandpass Filter Frequencies from CSound:

Soprano 'a' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 800 1150 2900 3900 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -6 -32 -20 -50
bw (Hz) 80 90 120 130 140

Soprano 'e' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 350 2000 2800 3600 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -20 -15 -40 -56
bw (Hz) 60 100 120 150 200

Soprano 'i' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 270 2140 2950 3900 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -12 -26 -26 -44
bw (Hz) 60 90 100 120 120

Soprano 'o' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 450 800 2830 3800 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -11 -22 -22 -50
bw (Hz) 70 80 100 130 135

Soprano 'u' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 325 700 2700 3800 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -16 -35 -40 -60
bw (Hz) 50 60 170 180 200

Alto 'a' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 800 1150 2800 3500 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -4 -20 -36 -60
bw (Hz) 80 90 120 130 140

Alto 'e' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 400 1600 2700 3300 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -24 -30 -35 -60
bw (Hz) 60 80 120 150 200

Alto 'i' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 350 1700 2700 3700 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -20 -30 -36 -60
bw (Hz) 50 100 120 150 200

Alto 'o' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 450 800 2830 3500 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -9 -16 -28 -55
bw (Hz) 70 80 100 130 135

Alto 'u' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 325 700 2530 3500 4950
Amp (dB) 0 -12 -30 -40 -64
bw (Hz) 50 60 170 180 200

CounterTenor 'a' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 660 1120 2750 3000 3350
Amp (dB) 0 -6 -23 -24 -38
bw (Hz) 80 90 120 130 140

CounterTenor 'e' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 440 1800 2700 3000 3300
Amp (dB) 0 -14 -18 -20 -20
bw (Hz) 70 80 100 120 120

CounterTenor 'i' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 270 1850 2900 3350 3590
Amp (dB) 0 -24 -24 -36 -36
bw (Hz) 40 90 100 120 120

CounterTenor 'o' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 430 820 2700 3000 3300
Amp (dB) 0 -10 -26 -22 -34
bw (Hz) 40 80 100 120 120

CounterTenor 'u' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 370 630 2750 3000 3400
Amp (dB) 0 -10 -26 -22 -34
bw (Hz) 40 60 100 120 120

Tenor 'a' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 650 1080 2650 2900 3250
Amp (dB) 0 -6 -7 -8 -22
bw (Hz) 40 60 100 120 120

Tenor 'e' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 400 1700 2600 3200 3580
Amp (dB) 0 -14 -12 -14 -20
bw (Hz) 70 80 100 120 120

Tenor 'i' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 290 1870 2800 3250 3540
Amp (dB) 0 -15 -18 -20 -30
bw (Hz) 40 90 100 120 120

Tenor 'o' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 400 800 2600 2800 3000
Amp (dB) 0 -10 -12 -12 -26
bw (Hz) 40 80 100 120 120

Tenor 'u' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 350 600 2700 2900 3300
Amp (dB) 0 -20 -17 -14 -26
bw (Hz) 40 60 100 120 120

Bass 'a' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 600 1040 2250 2450 2750
Amp (dB) 0 -7 -9 -9 -20
bw (Hz) 60 70 110 120 130

Bass 'e' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 400 1620 2400 2800 3100
Amp (dB) 0 -12 -9 -12 -18
bw (Hz) 40 80 100 120 120

Bass 'i' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 250 1750 2600 3050 3340
Amp (dB) 0 -30 -16 -22 -28
bw (Hz) 60 90 100 120 120

Bass 'o' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 400 750 2400 2600 2900
Amp (dB) 0 -11 -21 -20 -40
bw (Hz) 40 80 100 120 120

Bass 'u' f1 f2 f3 f4 f5
frequency (Hz) 350 600 2400 2675 2950
Amp (dB) 0 -20 -32 -28 -36
bw (Hz) 40 80 100 120 120

Chris-S · Post by **Chris-S** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:40 am

Cool, thanks.

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:21 am

lfm wrote:
Thinking general oooohhhh, aaaaaaaaaahhhh, sounds etc.

Here is one:

https://soundcloud.com/vintage-synth-pa ... vation-for

There are others in that set.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:23 pm

Doug1978 wrote:
Finally, if you're into Formant Synthesis, like me occasionally, here are some very useful Bandpass Filter Frequencies from CSound:

Thanks.

Would you know the general steepness of those filters - 6/12/24 dB each octave or?
Normal bell formation?

I thought it would be possible to build a preset in Metaplugin with all that combined unless a single EQ can do it all.

fischkopf · Post by **fischkopf** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:22 pm

There's always delay lama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYM5gkxaKsU

Full Bucket · Post by **Full Bucket** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:59 pm

For synthetic choir sounds you might try the deputy or the scrooo - it's freeware.

Sound examples:

Cheers, Björn

Chris-S · Post by **Chris-S** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:24 pm

lfm wrote:Would you know the general steepness of those filters - 6/12/24 dB each octave or?
Normal bell formation?

I think the "bw (Hz)" in the list indicates the bandwidth. So you need very steep filters.

Doug1978 · Post by **Doug1978** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:39 pm

^^ absolutely, as steep as possible - if you can get 24db / oct (or more!) go for it.

Muffwiggler's forum sheds good light on this:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... ?p=1707597

Also this SOS article:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar01/a ... nthsec.asp

(These are what I used to refer to anyway!)

Cheers

garryknight · Post by **garryknight** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:01 pm

Studio One Pro comes with Presence XT which has quite a few choir samples. It's also a really nice DAW but buying it just for the choir samples would be overkill.

Chris-S · Post by **Chris-S** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:06 pm

FS1R (formant synth) sounds:

https://youtu.be/p2OQegZxWDg

https://youtu.be/xfVgo-FBihU

Doug1978 · Post by **Doug1978** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:44 pm

Nice videos - especially the one by musictrackjp's cool dude Katsunori Ujiie.
He's a great tutor (I speak a bit of Japanese, but thank goodness for his subtitles!).

Can you synthesize good choir - or is recorded best way?