KVR Audio

Edsagoodn · Post by **Edsagoodn** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Hi. I use Cakewalk Sonar . it has all the bells and whistles of the other DAWs. Setting up is straight forward. comes with a decent amount of good quality VSTis as a starter and a lot of recording, mixing, editing and mastering tools. Plenty of support from the cakewalk blog and tutorials on you tube. I'm a hobby user and well past my sell-by but I can get the results I want without having to verbally chastise the pc too much.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:01 pm

Not sure if Sonar, Reaper or Logic will do anything for you if Cubase isn't to your liking. Pretty bloated all of them.

Studio One is great if you want a purely linear workflow with a clear single-window drag and drop interface.

I personally left pretty much everything else behind for Bitwig Studio.
Awesome workflow and getting better all the time.
The modulation alone is doing it for me, and 1.2 will add group layers and other great stuff.
As for videos: take your pick => http://www.bitwig.com/en/community/learning.html

But since DAWs are very personal, I think it's best to download the demos and see how they feel to you.
One man's heaven is another man's hell

Cheers,

Tom

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:03 pm

Reaper is bloated?!?! It's like 100 mb.

Libertine Lush · Post by **Libertine Lush** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:31 am

Levon83 wrote: I like the look of Logic Pro X but I'm currently PC based and it would be a big outlay to buy a Mac for the sole purpose of switching over to Logic Pro X

I use OSX and Windows, the latter for much longer. Generally speaking, Macs only cost more than Windows alternatives if you only consider the initial outlay.

There's a couple reasons why Macs cost less over time. They're significantly more reliable and stable (not merely by reputation, but you can look up third party reports on reliability) and, if you have problems, their warranty coverage is extremely generous. The other, and the most significant reason, is that the resale value is impressive. It is difficult to sell old Windows desktops or laptops for any worthwhile amount, but Macs retain so much value that I have, so far, with my last few Macs, more than made up the initial price difference compared to similarly specced Windows models.

So if you're planning in the long term, I would consider it a good investment.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:35 am

arkmabat wrote:Reaper is bloated?!?! It's like 100 mb.

Bloated with menu items maybe.

Surely not bloated with content. But reversely that means of course that you have to know what you're doing, what you're needing and how something has to work for you, which is not the case for everyone (surely wasn't the case when i used Reaper).

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:54 am

chk071 wrote:
arkmabat wrote:Reaper is bloated?!?! It's like 100 mb.
Bloated with menu items maybe. Surely not bloated with content. But reversely that means of course that you have to know what you're doing, what you're needing and how something has to work for you, which is not the case for everyone (surely wasn't the case when i used Reaper).

Totally agree.

It is a deep DAW and has many options/tools both in Audio and Midi. It is frustrating at the beginning, but I realized that the best way to work with Reaper is "Learn as much as you need only" and then customizing also can be by steps.
For example, I noticed that every time I want to record a midi, I must go and right click the arm button and choose "overdub", so I added an icon with action to record with overdub to the main tool bar. Reaper now won't disturb me with the default dialog after recording midi "where to save it!".
Another example is I that I got used in other DAWs that when I click a track, it automatically been armed and then when I play instrument, i hear the highlighted one. I did the same by adding an icon with this action for all tracks in the tool bar.
I did also added many midi actions to the piano roll. There are also many midi effects to insert before the synth/instrument like arp, sequence, ...etc.

After all, I'm very pleased that I bought a license from the previous charity here in KVR. I'm considering switching to it completely as Cubase 8 Pro is expensive for me, and Studio One won't have a score editor in the near future (mostly), while I have a big hope in Reaper 5.

I like also how active is the development and how fast the developers are acting in the pre release. Two big heads are there reading and answering all the bug reports for the pre release of Reaper 5. I reported one bug there and the second day, one of the main developers thanked me and said he is 'fixing' it now. That is very encouraging to invest time in learning it (as the price is very affordable and IMO very cheap).

The only thing with Reaper, that you must have your own plugs. Although I like and use the Rea plugs as well. I have also TB Track Essentials which I like a lot. They are really great plugs and very affordable. I especially use TB EQ and Compressor.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:14 am

Just to clarify: I have nothing against those DAWs I mentioned, I am sure they are awesome for some.
But since the op comes from Cubase and finds it overwhelming, I can't see how Reaper, Logic or Sonar would help much.

I personally am not inspired by having every option under the sun already spelled out for me and then sitting there searching menus and preferences for them and hope they do what I want, but by finding interesting solutions to things that may not be obvious.
Like for instance you can work in 5.1 surround in Bitwig Studio very well, although it has no inbuilt capability for it and only supports stereo tracks. But with it's flexible routing, it's not much of a problem to work in surround and actually offers quite some flexibility:
http://blog.thomashelzle.de/2015/02/sur ... io-part-1/

Also, for me being able to put VST plugins of any kind in any order I want on one track is a killer feature, since I work a lot with midi-mangling or generating plugins which is a pain in pretty much every other host other than maybe Usine.
In Bitwig I just put them in any position or layer I want.

So while maybe not as rich in pre-defined options, BWS is extremely rich and flexible when you want to go creative, which for me music-making is all about

But as I said, one man's heaven is another man's hell...

Cheers,

Tom

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:40 am

I don't think also the OP would like Reaper. For that I didn't suggest it to him/her. I just was talking in general.

IMO, for the OP I suggest one of the non 'classic' DAWs and specifically Live, Bitwig or FL Studio. Those have a different workflow, but can also be linear.

Reaper is fine if you have patience and the will to spend more time to learn it, customize it and get used to it.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:54 am

Levon83 wrote: I know that Cubase would offer me everything that I need but it just hasn't worked out for me and I feel a fresh start with a new DAW is required to kickstart my production ambitions.

I like the look of Logic Pro X but I'm currently PC based and it would be a big outlay to buy a Mac for the sole purpose of switching over to Logic Pro X, especially given that there is no guarantee that I would enjoy working with Logic Pro. However a big driver for moving to Logic Pro is that the studios and musician's that I've collaborated with in the past have all been Logic Pro users and it would have made life a lot easier if I had also been Logic Pro based.

Dude, what you have is probably the most complete and most used DAW on the planet. As you recognize yourself, it offers you everything you need and probably ever will. However, if it doesn't suit your workflow, to give you some advice, we would need to know why exactly it doesn't.

In essence, Logic Pro X works pretty much the same way as Cubase. So does Sonar. So does Reaper. Any of these are dense, mature, full featured DAWs, that take time and effort to take into. Don't be fooled by the looks, it's the inners that matter here. So, exactly, what are you looking for in a DAW?

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:15 pm

Levon83 wrote: I like the look of Logic Pro X but I'm currently PC based and it would be a big outlay to buy a Mac for the sole purpose of switching over to Logic Pro X

Well, what's another purpose, for us here at audio forum, if it's not DAW, really, that's enough reason to buy another computer, just like any piece of gear, it's investment...

especially given that there is no guarantee that I would enjoy working with Logic Pro.

Fair enough, find someone to visit who can give you crash course on it and time to play with it, if magic doesn't happen in an hour, it's not going to happen...

However a big driver for moving to Logic Pro is that the studios and musician's that I've collaborated with in the past have all been Logic Pro users and it would have made life a lot easier if I had also been Logic Pro based.

Yeah, also look what is bundled with it, you are more than covered when all comes together.

Sure you payed good for your Mac, but look at what you got, you can squeeze last dime from it and sell it good, they don't become worthless over time, that's the thing, if you don't have laptop, here is the chance to get one, second hand is option too.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:51 pm

Passing Bye wrote:Sure you payed good for your Mac, but look at what you got, you can squeeze last dime from it and sell it good, they don't become worthless over time, that's the thing, if you don't have laptop, here is the chance to get one, second hand is option too.

A common urban myth. This is so NOT true

VitaminD · Post by **VitaminD** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:07 pm

Cubase, Logic, Sonar, StudioOne, and REAPER all handle music in a linear fashion.. so if you are not happy with Cubase, I'm thinking you might have trouble with any of these.

Look at BWS and Ableton Live maybe... they divide audio into loops or clips. You can then record you cycling through these clips into a song onto the arranger view. Handy for the electronic artist.

That said, with Cubase, one can Control+click on a pattern and copy it.. so you can essentially do a lot of the same.. just not time sequenced on the clips view as in Live.

I looked at Cubase over a decade ago and it overwhelmed me too. A few years ago, I took another look and it clicked instantly.. like a glove made for me. So I'd say maybe it really isn't for you right now.. but you should find some place where you are comfortable working.

I also bought REAPER before this.. and it felt like Linux.. vastly more powerful but vastly more confusing... even group channel routing was a bit tedious compared to Cubase to me.. try them all out and see which one works for YOU!

Passing Bye · Post by **Passing Bye** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:09 pm

fmr wrote:
Passing Bye wrote:Sure you payed good for your Mac, but look at what you got, you can squeeze last dime from it and sell it good, they don't become worthless over time, that's the thing, if you don't have laptop, here is the chance to get one, second hand is option too.
A common urban myth. This is so NOT true

Go and see their second hand value in classified ads, you are search and few clicks away from it

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:18 pm

Yeah, Apple products have a big second hand value.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:11 pm

chk071 wrote:Yeah, Apple products have a big second hand value.

And first hand have an even HIGHER value (and pray that you don't need to repair them AFTER the guarantee is expired). For the difference in price you have to pay to replace the unit you are selling second hand (assuming you CAN replace the unit with one of similar specs - in my case I can't, I would need to jump to a much higher priced unit), you can very much trash your old PC, and buy a new one (and still get a good amount saved).

With the added detail that you don't even need to trash your PC entirely, since you usually can take advantage of several components. Basically, what you need to replace is the MoBo, the CPU and eventually the RAM.

As I said: a myth.

DAW - A Fresh Start