Stereo Widening

[Chris-S]

What is the "better" way to get a wide stereo sound:

1) Using a small delay between L and R.

2) Using a small detuning beween L and R.

Thanks
Chris

[scintillator]

neither

use a dedicated stereo widener or an m/s eq

[DJ Warmonger]

neither

use a dedicated stereo widener or an m/s

I would say exactly opposite. Small detuning (aka unison) works well for me and in fact can't go wrong. Dedicated widening plugins can, as they often have some cryptic principle of operation and "advanced" algorithms that may sound good on their own, but break the mix in hundred of bizzare ways.

Mid/side EQ for widening is a bad choice, as it means boost which is better to avoid. Not to mention you never can boost side of sound which is mono.

For me the workflow is to keep things wide in synth and use mid-side EQ to cut side if needed.

[Ah_Dziz]

Between the two options you gave I would generally go with detuning. There are hundreds of ways to play with your stereo image though and the two you mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. A very short "ambience" reverb will add some to most sounds without causing any phase issues which both methods you mentioned can definitely do especially on the lower end of the spectrum. Also a short modulated delay with an eq on the wet channel can accomplish either of your methods but in a much more flexible fashion. Simply processing either side of the stereo signal with slightly different eq, compressor and saturation settings will also give you a wide range of different stereo effects. But if the choice is delay a channel by a small static amount or detune the two channels against each other id go with detune.

JJ

[timiop2011]

I find using both delay and detuning together usually gives the best image widening. The real trick is choosing appropriate values for delay and detune. Of course, it massively depends on the genre, however I usually like to detune the channels 8 to 10 cents apart, and add a delay of around 11 - 14 ms to one channel. After adding this detune and delay, if I am still not happy with the width of the stereo image I usually add an instance of Melda MStereoProcessor to an fx channel and adjust the Gain, Widener, Panorama, and Exciter parameters until I'm happy with the stereo width. The melda stuff is excellent, however I appreciate it's not cheap so if you're on a budget i've also heard great things about the latest version of the free plugin; voxengo touch.

[simon.a.billington]

I would go with number of these techniques, which could make for a stronger effect, depending on the track.

Problems with introducing delays is you can introduce phase cancellation if the mix heard in any number or circumstances that would reduce the width of the stereo field, not just if it were played back in mono.

In fact, many stereo systems have their speakers so close together, that you would only have to take a few steps back to effectively collapse the mix. Many of those Blutooth systems could even be worse. So keeping your phases in check is an important thing.

The trouble with mid/side is if any sound was panned hard left or right, it would appear to come out of the centre so it tends to rob you in that respect. You can avoid this by not hard panning, or you can use this plugin here...

Waves Centre.



More than just a mid-side processor, apparently it has a very useful algorithm at work to prevent those hard panned signals ending up in the middle.

Mid-side eq can be used, you just need to know how to use it. Most important aspect is keeping your bottom end in the middle and the upper mid transients more focussed in the middle as well, but they don't have to be dead in the centre.

If you're using Logic, it's EQ can be used to target mids and sides as well



The Waves plugin eases the management of these by offering you knobs to help you balance the mix. It can even put at the end of the chain just to finely adjust things.

Adding a touch or stereo modulation to any reverb as well can help widen the sound.

You can also consider making some instruments mono, or close enough to it, pan it one side and then balance it by putting in a similar element on the other. Synth stacks can have their individual elements panned this way too.

The bonus of doing this way is that it clears the centre out a bit leaving more room for your drums, bass and vocals, also resulting in less mud too.

[dewgong]

Try panning hard left and right and putting the right side out of phase. Then detune and add 3-4ms delay to the right channel. The phase inversion really widens the stereo field

[padillac]

to get stereo widening, you make the left and right channels different

you have infinite options for doing that. experiment, and use what works for your mix

[DJ Warmonger]

you have infinite options for doing that. experiment

However, your time for experiments is not infinite.