Swung 16ths in dance beats - are the other parts also swung??
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
Now here's a question, if ever there was one, that the ears should be able to answer. But for some reason mine can't right now... So consider this a technical query on historical conventions.
Does anyone know, in dance music where the beat (eg hi hat pattern) often has some degree of swing, is it conventional to have all the other parts (eg rhythmic arps, plucks, bass even if it's busy enough to include 16ths) also swung to the same degree?
Does anyone know, in dance music where the beat (eg hi hat pattern) often has some degree of swing, is it conventional to have all the other parts (eg rhythmic arps, plucks, bass even if it's busy enough to include 16ths) also swung to the same degree?
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- KVRist
- 442 posts since 21 May, 2014
idk, keep your ears open........i think having some swing is good, in contrast to the regular rythm...the swing provides contrast...so one or two elements like hihats
Sincerely,
Zethus, twin son of Zeus
Zethus, twin son of Zeus
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
I certainly shall - why would anyone not what sounds good?!deastman wrote:There isn't a rule. Just do whatever sounds good to you.
Still interested to know what the conventional approach is, even if I end up doing the opposite. The main reason I ask is I was reading this interview with Roger Linn drum machine pioneer: http://www.attackmagazine.com/features/ ... pc-timing/
and he talks about how his MPC swing settings influenced House decades ago. I just curious whether these producers simply dialled in some swing on the drum and left the rest of the track alone, or whether the approach was to make the whole track swing. The reason it's hard to hear is that I'm obviously not talking full-on triplet feel (in which case it would be easy to tell if the instruments weren't swung) but just subtle amounts of swing.
Anyway, am not after production advice here exactly, just curious if anyone knows this.
- KVRAF
- 40268 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from clown world
I was watching a video of a guy applying groove to a electronic beat in ableton live on youtube a long time ago.
It sounded great when he 'swung' the percussion and the hats.
Then he fecked it all up by swinging the kick as well.
The kick was the anchor, working in perfect time with the robotic sequenced bass.
If it was hip-hop, you might want to swing the kick to groove like an old vinyl record. In that case, you'd want to swing the bass too.
Off the top of my head. My 2c.
It sounded great when he 'swung' the percussion and the hats.
Then he fecked it all up by swinging the kick as well.
The kick was the anchor, working in perfect time with the robotic sequenced bass.
If it was hip-hop, you might want to swing the kick to groove like an old vinyl record. In that case, you'd want to swing the bass too.
Off the top of my head. My 2c.
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
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- KVRAF
- 7540 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area
Again, I don't think there was any sort of convention or standard. People just did what they did. I can say that back in the day when I was working in Opcode Vision, I would swing some of the melodic tracks by varying amounts. I would just try different settings until it sounded good. Some parts sounded better with no swing. You do want that contrast.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.
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- KVRAF
- 2070 posts since 5 Oct, 2005
+1.deastman wrote:Again, I don't think there was any sort of convention or standard. People just did what they did.
If most people had been doing the same thing there would be less variation between artists.
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
Fair enough - I'll experiment!
It strikes me that if too many parts are out of sync, even just on the offbeat 16ths, it could all get a bit messy, a bit "flam-y" - especially if various things are swung to slightly different percentages/ammounts. This is kind of what prompted my question actually - I was intending to do two versions of the same thing to compare, one with just hats swung, one with bass and arpeggiated synth parts also swung - but then realised that cubase, geist and zebra all seem to have different ranges/scales for swing ammount, so it was going to be hard to get them all exactly the same! Anyway, this can of course be done by the ear too.
It strikes me that if too many parts are out of sync, even just on the offbeat 16ths, it could all get a bit messy, a bit "flam-y" - especially if various things are swung to slightly different percentages/ammounts. This is kind of what prompted my question actually - I was intending to do two versions of the same thing to compare, one with just hats swung, one with bass and arpeggiated synth parts also swung - but then realised that cubase, geist and zebra all seem to have different ranges/scales for swing ammount, so it was going to be hard to get them all exactly the same! Anyway, this can of course be done by the ear too.
- KVRAF
- 5223 posts since 20 Jul, 2010
Percussive sounds not triggering all at the same time can sound great. Spreads the energy about and lets you get more headroom. Things will only sound noticably flammy if they are the same instrument/sound. Experiment with different types of quantization (or lack of it) on different parts, and even moving whole tracks forwards and backwards in time slightly.
When it comes to my tastes, things being mixed up is great - different microgrooves, different tunings, etc. The ear loves a near miss.
When it comes to my tastes, things being mixed up is great - different microgrooves, different tunings, etc. The ear loves a near miss.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp! Now pay what you like!
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alligatorlizard alligatorlizard https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=276868
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 133 posts since 14 Mar, 2012
Now this is true! Same principle as dischordant harmonies building up then resolving nicely I guess.Sendy wrote:The ear loves a near miss.