Feedback request for new DAW build

[Spiritos]

After some initial contemplation about buying from a dedicated DAW builder I decided based on the feedback in another thread http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=384158 and a offer from a local dealer to build on myself.

Now as it's been over 5 years ago since I build my last PC (which was for gaming purposes) I would appreciate some sharp feedback on my current choices.
Especially if there are any known issues about components, compatibility and silencing and if you see options for price reduction (maybe a 128 GB SSD will suffice?). I will only be using this PC for musicproduction but will need an ethernet connection for updating my software.

I work on Win7 64x, use an audio interface and mostly work with VST's aside from a guitar and a mic. I'm planning on buying Kontakt in the future so that's why I decided on the amount of RAM and a 3rd HDD.

This is my list:

Intel Core i7 4770K Boxed
Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H
Fractal Design Define R4 Pearl Black
Seasonic G-Serie 550Watt
Corsair Vengeance CMZ16GX3M2A1600C9 (2x8 GB)
Plextor PX-256M5S 256GB SSD
Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev. A Processor cooler
Seagate SV35.5 ST2000VX000, 2TB (x2)
Samsung SH-224BB Zwart

This setup will cost me € 1.072,- euros excluding sending the parts.

If interested here's a link to my setup. Just choose 'DAW PC final' to see all the specs of the components: http://tweakers.net/gallery/318476/#tab:wenslijst

I'm planning on overclocking my CPU to a safe limit of 4,2-4,3 GHz as the Haswell tends to get pretty hot. The cooler I choose is one of the few I could find in this pricerange being directly compatible with the new 1150 socket and produces 17dB which is acceptable but I would like some confirmation whether this model will be sufficient for the overclock.

I chose the case casue of it's size, it's acoustic treatment and the ability to regulate the fans.

The RAM has a CAS latency of 9 which was the lowest I could find in this pricerange. I might be willing to pay a little more if latency could be reduced to 7 although I'm unsure if this will be necessary. Any words on that are also welcome.

As I won't be buying an additional GPU I think 550 Watt for the Powersupply is more than enough.

The SSD is the best bang for the buck at this moment. I have thought about the Samsung 8400 which is quite popular but the trace-based benchmarks show a decrease of about 20-30% when the disk gets full, probably because of the tlc memory and opposed to the pro version which I find to be too espensive.

The 2 2TB HHD's I chose for their pirce. I never had any problems with Seagate although I dont't know much about this series. I hesitated to buy one extra SSD for my samples but I would probably need 500 GB in the future and that's way too expensive for me.

As for the DVD writer I simply chose the cheapest.

I excluded the keyboard/mouse and monitor. I want a 27 inch monitor and I will searcg for a used one on marketplace to keep down the costs and I need to feel the mouse and keyboard so I will buy this in an actual shop and not online.

Feel free to shoot but please only in a constructive way. I know you probably have a different case or so which is also nice but unless you can explain why it is better then my choice please refrain as I don't want this thread to be a populairity contest.

Otherwise I'm really looking forward on your thoughts about this setup.

[EvilDragon]

My humble suggestion would be going for WD Black drives if at all possible.

[Spiritos]

So far the only 2 changes I made was going for some low level RAM as I realised I might get into trouble fitting the cooler so I changed to:

Corsair Vengeance LP CML16GX3M2A1600C9

Also I figured I up my PSU to 650 GB to be on the safe side so I upgraded in the same series from a bronze to gold certification.

I did some research on the WD Black and although it's faster some say it can be quite noisy, even when idle.

[EvilDragon]

I have THREE of those WD Blacks and they are quiet as a lamb. Granted, I have 1 TB models, but just balancing things out. They're quiet, and they run quite cool. Of course, my case helps there (CoolerMaster Cosmos S, with a special 5.25" module that holds 4 3.5" HDs with their own 12 cm fan).

[Spiritos]

Yeah, that's a beast of a case. Somewhat out of my pricerange alas.

The Blacks are also quite expensive here in the Netherlands. The cheapest 2TB version will set me back € 130 euros. That's a 60% increase compared to my Seagates.

I could go for 1TB disk for my projects though as the only reason I'm buying 2TB disks is cause of the faster access times for my samples.

[Kaine]

Your spec choices are fine even down to the changes you've made (and that LP memory is a must with that cooler) so far. Your probably more than fine with the 550w PSU but going for a better more effcient PSU like the Gold edition is worthwhile too and the extra overhead is never a bad thing.

The WD blacks are great but I'd probably agree that if the is a cost premium in your region, the are probably better things to spend the extra on and to that end I'd upgrade the SSD to a Samsung Pro 840 personally.

[Spiritos]

Ok. As many people urged me to get the Samsung Pro I changed it. Figured it's the most important component anyway so the 40 extra euros are well spent.

As for the WD blacks I decided I could do with 1 TB and 1 2TB disk so that'll even out the costs. Done.

Thanks.

[DevonB]

The WD blacks are great but I'd probably agree that if the is a cost premium in your region, the are probably better things to spend the extra on and to that end I'd upgrade the SSD to a Samsung Pro 840 personally.

How to the Blues compare to the Blacks these days, in your opinion? My 1TB Blacks were considerably slower than my Seagate ST2000DM001 drives, but the Seagate has the click problem, which I wouldn't recommend for a DAW. I would get about 95MB/sec copying between two blacks vs. 150-160MB/sec copying between the DM001's) I have one WD Blue installed right now which replaced another WD Blue, which worked perfectly fine, and have not had issues with either (well, I had one with errors I got on first copy, so I erased it and returned it. The second one has worked flawless.)

The WD Blacks used to not sell at an extreme premium before the floods. Now, they are way overpriced, IMHO, as the prices never came back in line from pre-flood prices what I've seen? Or is my memory faulty on this?

Devon

[Kaine]

How to the Blues compare to the Blacks these days, in your opinion? My 1TB Blacks were considerably slower than my Seagate ST2000DM001 drives, but the Seagate has the click problem, which I wouldn't recommend for a DAW.

Yeah, that drives me mad when it crops up.

I would get about 95MB/sec copying between two blacks vs. 150-160MB/sec copying between the DM001's)

Yeah? I used to see 130 - 140 on the blacks not retested recently mind, may be time to do so.

I have one WD Blue installed right now which replaced another WD Blue, which worked perfectly fine, and have not had issues with either

I'm fine with the blues as well. I go for the blacks for the features not in the least the anti vibration features on the motor spindle and the extra 3 years on the warranty. I have got to note through that I have found some of the recent blues to be slightly quieter, which given the advertised feature set of the blacks is a bit suprising.

The WD Blacks used to not sell at an extreme premium before the floods. Now, they are way overpriced, IMHO, as the prices never came back in line from pre-flood prices what I've seen? Or is my memory faulty on this?
Devon

The blacks were always $30/$40 more from what I recall. I suppose all that's happening now is that your paying for the extended warranty.

[Spiritos]

I have one more question about the fans that come with the Fractal R4. Do you think these will suffice or would you suggest some other fans?

I'm asking this since a DAW builder recommended replacing them with some other ones. As far as I could find the native ones are quit enough regarding levels on 5 and 7 volt but I'm no expert. I also believe my setup has a positive pressure with the CPU cooler blowing upwards right?

So any last words of advice on the fans?

[Kaine]

I have one more question about the fans that come with the Fractal R4. Do you think these will suffice or would you suggest some other fans?

They'll suffice. I'm not saying the isn't better choices as far as better cfm @ those noise levels go but not by much. Personally I'm happy to use them in order to keep the cost down.

I'm asking this since a DAW builder recommended replacing them with some other ones.

Which ones?

I also believe my setup has a positive pressure with the CPU cooler blowing upwards right?

So any last words of advice on the fans?

I'd run the cooler front to back not bottom to top and yeah, positive pressure. You can run that case bottom to top but it would involve adding another fan to the mix, which can probably be avoided otherwise.

[Spiritos]

I'm asking this since a DAW builder recommended replacing them with some other ones.

Which ones?

Well, he wouldn't say and here's the thing. Although I pretty much decided I'll build my own PC I asked a price offer from a local DAW builder anyway since a 1-year guarantee on a build is still pretty appealing. But it's impossible for me to determine whether this particular company offers quality builds.

I understand as a DAW builder you don't want to spill your guts about the tricks of the trade but when asked for specific tweaks and what fans and why his build would be better than from a local generic builder all I get is "They don't build DAW PC's so they don't know what to look for." Even when we discussed the option of an OS-less system which makes no sense to me. He also suggested I'd probably needed a fan in the sidepanel when I think this isn't even possible as the cooler is only an inch away from the foam.

Sorry for the little rant but it's frustrating being somewhat in the dark when re-evaluating the option of a DAW-build and assessing their knowhow.

I also believe my setup has a positive pressure with the CPU cooler blowing upwards right?

So any last words of advice on the fans?

I'd run the cooler front to back not bottom to top and yeah, positive pressure. You can run that case bottom to top but it would involve adding another fan to the mix, which can probably be avoided otherwise.

I did read in an article on Soundonsound that bottom up would be better to reduce acoustic noise as done with the Lian-Li case in the Phil Rees PC so aside from the extra cost of a fan how do you feel about that?

[Kaine]

Well, he wouldn't say and here's the thing.

He wouldn't tell you about a component that he's about to bill you for? That sounds fairly off to me, to be honest.

I understand as a DAW builder you don't want to spill your guts about the tricks of the trade but when asked for specific tweaks and what fans and why his build would be better than from a local generic builder all I get is "They don't build DAW PC's so they don't know what to look for." Even when we discussed the option of an OS-less system which makes no sense to me. He also suggested I'd probably needed a fan in the sidepanel when I think this isn't even possible as the cooler is only an inch away from the foam.

I can't think of a valid reason for placing a fan on a side panel if your not gaming/video rendering.

Side panel mounts are for forcing air into the gfx card region which then gets vented back out the rear of the machine and works quite well in a front to rear setup. In bottom to top it destroys the air flow and you shouldn't have a noisy high end gfx card in there to justify it anyway (as I'm sure your not).

Sorry for the little rant but it's frustrating being somewhat in the dark when re-evaluating the option of a DAW-build and assessing their knowhow.

Well I'm questioning some of the choices already...

I'd run the cooler front to back not bottom to top and yeah, positive pressure. You can run that case bottom to top but it would involve adding another fan to the mix, which can probably be avoided otherwise.

I did read in an article on Soundonsound that bottom up would be better to reduce acoustic noise as done with the Lian-Li case in the Phil Rees PC so aside from the extra cost of a fan how do you feel about that?

*urgh* Lian-Li's... look great, cost a fortune and have ultra thin side panels that sound like a barn in a hurricane.

Sorry, I know that wasn't your point, but I really don't like them.

SoS, it's right as a rule of thumb (I've got a feeling I may have even have had input into that article) but the rules don't apply to every situation and I was talking specificly about the Fractal R4 case in question.

That case has a large fan mounted at the rear & front which are quite effective and no fan on the bottom of that case out of the box or indeed at the top.

You could add another in bottom and then one in the top, but you'd remove the noise blocking foam from the cealing to do so adding another route for sound to escape as well as having to add in more fans that you started with increasing the noise floor.

The case has a lot of room for air circulation which has both its benifits and negitives when it comes to air flow and positive pressure.

If you have less than 4 drives the optimum layout would be to remove the middle drive caddie to give the maximum amount of air flow for the least amount of fan movement and then have a large cooler/fan combo in the middle of the case which then forces air out into the rear fan for extraction. If you leave the middle caddie in the case (you may have to if you have lots of hard drives) then I would go bottom to top as the front fan will be blocked off. In that instance I'd throttle the front fan so it's just cooling the drives and then run it bottom to top with the extra fans and a change in air flow direction.

In general it's best to work with convection to keep the noise down and system cool but if you can create a suitable front to back solution with less moving parts overall than the convection method then it might work out the quieter all round whilst still being effective enough to do.

[Spiritos]

Once again thanks for your most elaborate answer and reaffirming my decision to build myself.

I'll be using 2 HDD's and 1 SSD in the bottom so indeed I'll be removing the middle rack and use a front to rear airflow with a big cooler on the CPU.

Aside from the initial frustration I'm really getting back in touch with the fun it brings building your own PC. Now let's hope everything works out smoothly..

[DevonB]

Aside from the initial frustration I'm really getting back in touch with the fun it brings building your own PC. Now let's hope everything works out smoothly..

It's only fun when it all comes together and it works.

Devon