IK Multimedia's requirement to run DAW as administrator blocks access to user account presets

[ObiWonder]

Yes, Windows 7 was already out. Can you PM me your ticket number and I'll make sure the team is aware of it?

[Compyfox]

This means the Run As Administrator command is not needed to run a newer plug-in in a DAW or as a Standalone app. Newer plug-ins means anything that was released after AmpliTube 3, including T-RackS 3 and 4, ARC 1 and 2 etc.

...

In summary the Run As Administrator command is only useful in some specific cases, i.e. when the app was released before Windows 7 and was not aware of folder restrictions. All our modern applications will work on Windows Vista, Windows 7 (and Windows 8 for the most part), without special tricks.

Sorry, but I can not confirm this, ObiK.


I am running T-Racks (4) CS, ARC1, I had a demo of ARC2 on my rig as well, and I also run AT3.x CS. I am on Win7, my UAC seems to be active, I have two admin accounts (one for studio one for office).

According to your post, there should be no issues whatsoever. Apparently, without the "run as admin" tag for each individual host, I can not render with T-Racks. If I do so, I get noise bursts with 1s length every 10 seconds in the track (like 4-5 times, then not anymore).

I adressed this to the support, and they told me to "run as admin". So if I go by your post, everything should be find. This however contradicts with the comments by the support.


Unless it's Steinberg's fault (Steinberg says it's IKMs fault - so it's full circle). WL7 was released before Win7 times. This then confirms my opinion, that every developer thinks that it's always the fault by the other dev, not the company that actually sells the tools.





@TheoM:
I can try to disable the UAC. Even though I remember that I turned it off. But I'm not sure if I am then forced to use one user account only.

[ObiWonder]

If everything is authorized and there are no audio bursts or drop outs during mixing, then it isn't with T-Racks. If the dropouts and burst happen when mixing and not just when rendering then shoot me your ticket number as well.

[AC222]

Hi,

In the response from the ticket I filled out, the tech person said that Windows 8 is "not officially supported". Is this true? Windows 8 has been out for a while now and Windows Blue is coming out around the corner, which is like version 8.5. Is there a reason Windows 8 is not supported? Is the vision to not support future windows platforms or is it that Windows 8 needs to be out for a few more years before it is "officially supported".

I wish I could figure out what the problem is but I uninstalled everything and reinstalled everything as Admin. I looked in the program files/data folder for remnants and deleted those ahead of time before reinstalling and nothing seemed to work. I wonder if there are some remnants of the old installation elsewhere? I couldn't find it in the roaming file but still perplexed.

I know there's quite a few individuals having this problem outside of Sample Tank. Is there any plan to fix this going forward? I do not feel turning off user account control is a solution because IK products are the only products that have this issue for me.

[Compyfox]

If everything is authorized and there are no audio bursts or drop outs during mixing, then it isn't with T-Racks. If the dropouts and burst happen when mixing and not just when rendering then shoot me your ticket number as well.

Ticket won't help.

Issue:
Mixing (realtime) is fine, rendering results in noise bursts. Again, I have two user accounts (had bad experience with single accounts and hybrid PC usage before), both in admin mode.


Happens in:
Wavelab 7.1.x, Cubase 7 up until 7.0.3 is fine.


Solution (according to tech support):
Right click on host icon, "run as admin", problem solved. It indeed is, with the side effect mentioned in post 1. According to tech support, this "run-as-admin tag always needs to be done".



Summary:
So you say it's Steinberg's fault. Steinberg says it's IKM's fault. In the end, it's the users fault.

We're obviously stupid.

[Klinke]

This means the Run As Administrator command is not needed to run a newer plug-in in a DAW or as a Standalone app. Newer plug-ins means anything that was released after AmpliTube 3, including T-RackS 3 and 4, ARC 1 and 2 etc.

I quote from a correspondence with your support about problems with the Model 670 plugin (Ticket 801629):

Me: "I can use the plugin in Reaper when i run Reaper with administrator rights. But
i don't want to run Reaper with administrator rights (too insecure and to much work to reconfigure Reaper for another account)? So what can i do now?"

The answer: "Hi, you have to for now unfortantely."

So maybe it's fixed since then (but i definitly got the impression from different threads that this is not the case, and i got a lot of spam from your company but no information about updates of the 670 plugin), but for sure this problem did exist also after the release of T-RackS 3. And that your support started to deny this problem afterwards in the thread just convienced me to stay away from your company.

What happens if you don't use Run As Administrator on a Legacy plug-in? Normally if software expects to be able to write a file in folder and the write fails, it will throw serious errors to the users or it will just crash.

How to you define a serious error? If a software is well written, it expects that a problem can arise will writing a file, catch the corresponding expection of handle the return value of the function in a correct way and just give the user some feedback with usefull information.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

If you are still having problems that don't seem to match what Obi posted (which was directly from our technical and development teams), just PM your ticket number or reply as such to your tickets and I'll make our Support Manager aware that there's a disparity too. It will get resolved, just work with us directly on it and well get these things cleared up. Thanks.

@Klinke - there's an unsubscribe link on each of those emails, you can also contact us directly or work within your account to tailor what you want to get from us regarding this so-called "spam". If you have difficulties managing this, please PM me and I'll help get it taken care of. Also, Obi simply sent exactly what our team said and in context you are talking about a legacy product possibly throwing an error while running on an OS that didn't exist when the product was developed. Obviously our developers understand how trapping and handling thrown errors works. They've been at this for longer than most.

[Compyfox]

May I ask how that might help us in any way?

I also got the same response by the support. So if you make the support aware that "it should work" since you said so, but the support says different (and this is also confirmed with the most recent installation) - what would that offer for us?


My ticket Nr was 599032 (from 04/01/2013, according to the system).

I quote Jason Williams:

Some programs that run plug ins, etc need to be run as admin to handle things like this unfortantely. Its always best to install and run everything as admin from what I have seen.

And after I said that this shouldn't happen if you ALREADY RUN as admin (profiles), I got this:

Thats not 100% correct in windows terms, you have to tell each program manually to run as admin.

Different program, have different needs.

Looks to me as either you have no idea what's going on, or you really don't know what's going on and don't want to mess with it (rather with iOS).

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

I am not in technical support, so I have no idea (as it is not part of what I do here so that's to be expected). We posted exactly what our devs stated and since (as I stated above quite clearly) you are having a different experience I'll forward your information. Seems simple enough a concept as I've laid out above. And about the passive-aggressive iOS thing, that's quite funny considering the support folks here are typically desktop plugin folks at heart (being that they have been with us for years in some cases, before the market for iOS even existed), so thanks for the chuckle. Anyway, your information has been relayed. Though I suppose griping about it to people who can't directly help and venting on a forum will "help you in any way" or at least some way? This is between you and support, I won't debate it back and forth with you here as I've already stated that if there's a disparity between the information relayed directly from devs by Obi and your experience, it will be worked out between you and support. Again, not a difficult concept unless made difficult for whatever reason.

[Klinke]

Peter, please read my post (or check e.g. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122733): It is not true that the "Run as admin" problem only appears on your 'legacy products'. I was curious and just checked if your team have maybe fixed this in the last 22 month since i reported to probem and just installed your current version of the 670 singleton and run into exactly the same problem i described in the tickt #801629. You can't insert the 670 plugin in a host (tested with Reaper) that is launched from a normal user account (without admin rights). Or to be more exactly, already the scan of the plugin fails. You must launch Reaper via "Run with admin". And as i already cited in my last post, your support acknowledge first the bug.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Peter, please read my post (or check e.g. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122733): It is not true that the "Run as admin" problem only appears on your 'legacy products'. I was curious and just checked if your team have maybe fixed this in the last 22 month since i reported to probem and just installed your current version of the 670 singleton and run into exactly the same problem i described in the tickt #801629. You can't insert the 670 plugin in a host (tested with Reaper) that is launched from a normal user account (without admin rights). Or to be more exactly, already the scan of the plugin fails. You must launch Reaper via "Run with admin". And as i already cited in my last post, your support acknowledge first the bug.

Like I've stated, since there is disparity between what Obi has relayed and your experience (and with what support has stated in your ticket), please reply to support to state this or send me your ticket number so I can have them take care of figuring out why. We are not going to be able to resolve it back and forth here, we will just continue to agree that what you experience is different than what Obi has relayed.

[Klinke]

send me your ticket number

I have mentioned the ticket number already twice.

it will be worked out between you and support. Again, not a difficult concept unless made difficult for whatever reason.

It is a difficult concept, when the supports just start to deny the problem after a while. I didn't see how under this circumstances this will be worked out and have burned enough time till then with your products so i just decided to live without them, they are not that irreplaceable anyway.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

...I just noticed it was mentioned and checked and it was forwarded at that time like we've stated we would. Just confusing, you might agree since that would lead me to wonder why it would continue to go on and on here instead of getting the appropriate help that we've offered to rectify the situation? Quite an old ticket, if you could reply you will get resolution to your issue and it has been brought to the attention of our Support Manager as well. It is not difficult at all when we realize the age of the ticket and that there have been many updates since but you have written us off which is your choice and I understand. They weren't denying anything, they were offering a workaround and again it was an older ticket so you still have the option of working with them to move forward though it seems many would rather just gripe about it here instead. That's all right of course, it just won't really help much.

[Klinke]

Again: As I already mentioned, I have just tested this today: The bug still exists. And I also already mentioned why I stopped the correspondence in the second section of my last reply: My time is just to valuably to burn more of it, trying to get your plugin to run.

And in my interpretation the last answer was just denying the problem. If you are sure that most reader will see this in a different way, I encourage you to make the correspondence public.

[Ch00rD]

[...] That's all right of course, it just won't really help much.

It doesn't help IK Multimedia much, but other users are sure being helped a lot by users who elaborate on their experiences, good and bad, with particular firms and products. And obviously, you understand that well enough, or you would not be spending so much time and effort trying to skew the public discussion.

Indeed, providing adequate support and honest information is not a very difficult concept at all. But IK Multimedia sure seems to have much more trouble with that simple concept than many other firms, in my experience, which is much the same: I have reported bugs and usability issues ages ago, many updates have passed, but never anything that even came close to resolving the issues, and all interaction with IK Multimedia staff has been a complete waste of time (the support ticket has been closed as if the issues were resolved), but even the simplest of questions still have not been answered. I have helped myself much the same way, by discarding IK Multimedia products.

When I asked Brian about one of these issues again a few weeks ago (because it is also apparent in IK Multimedia's latest products), I was told he would follow up on it. But I still haven't heard or seen anything. As expected, yet again. One more reason to put my money on Klinke being right and IK Multimedia being wrong, when IK Multimedia says something entirely different than Klinke, and only one of them can be right.